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The Urban Jungle
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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

ssiguy2 said:
One thing is for certain, now that the feds are going to be putting money into a BD extension there is no way in hell there will be any money forthcoming from Ottawa for a DRL.
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Hopefully by the time the DRL is finished EA the Metrolinx revenue tools will be in place and chasing after the feds for money won't really be necessary.
 
RPM said:
nice feather in Ford's cap...

have to give him credit when it's due... damn the naysayers
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True. However, it took him more than 2 1/2 years to actually do something useful for transit.

Essentially, the plan currently on the table is consistent with the proposal of George Smitherman, Ford's main rival. SRT is replaced with a subway while all other Transit City lines remain in place.
 
Transportfan said:
A little too late for that now with the Spadina line already being extended to 7. :)
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The interline is still possible.

BurlOak said:
I was hoping to get some response on this in the fantasy transit thread but nobody bit. Here is my thought for Sheppard West. I am sure I have seen parts of this before, but I will consolidate it into one plan. Essentially, the Sheppard subway would be interlined with the Spadina line at the (existing) Downsview station, alternating going north and south. Here is the resulting TTC map (excuse the poor graphics).

View attachment 11462

So we have 4 lines (actually 3, but I gave the short-turn one its own name) operating and the YUS and Spadina lines. At peak, the trains have the following frequencies:

- Yonge-University-Vaughan (yellow) = 4 minutes
- Yonge-University-Downsview (red) = 8 minutes
- Sheppard-University-Yonge (pink) = 8 minutes
- Sheppard-Vaughan (blue) = 8 minutes

Each train would be colour coded so that passenger know which direction there train would go (in addition to the sign on the front of the train) - even the short turn train has a colour coding so that passengers will not complain about being on a train the short-turns.

This means that train frequency would be 2 minutes on the current YUS and south of Downsview every second train would either be a short turn or transferring Sheppard train would ensure space for those further south. The frequency would be 3 trains in 8 minutes (intervals of 2, 2, and 4 minutes) on the new Spadina extension - where one of those trains goes towards Sheppard. The frequency on Sheppard would be 4 minutes, with trains alternating going north and south.

To accomplish this, there would be a Downsview Station on the Sheppard line. The Sheppard line would go under the Spadina line and then curve down to join the Spadina line north of Wilson (with the northbound to eastbound ramp going over the Spadina line) and also the Sheppard line would go north and join the Spadina line south of Sheppard West (the one with the GO hub) (with the westbound to northbound ramp going over the Spadina line and joining in from the north). (I do show the option of the tracks crossing here, but with farther thought, I think it is worth separating the tracks here). There would be one intersection where the westbound to southbound ramp crosses the southbound to eastbound ramp - this would be acceptable since the frequency on these ramps is 8 minutes for each movement.

Here it is graphically (again, not the greatest drawing skills)

View attachment 11461

This interlining proposal differs from the Lower Bay Wye that was used decades ago since the frequency on all sides of the Wye are not the same. The Sheppard westbound to southbound train could arrive early to Downsview and have a planned wait to ensure that it joins the Spadina line southbound at the correct point in time - since it is maintaining the frequency southbound that is critical.

The curves to make up these ramps are about 350m radius, about the same (or a touch better) as the Spadina curve from Allen to Sheppard West. However, they are less critical since the train frequency on these ramps is not as often so they could be taken at a slower speed - the only important thing is that the trains be on time to head southbound.

There would be next to no transfers between the two Downsview Stations (the Spadina one and the Sheppard one) due to the interlining - so they could be separated by some distance so that the new Downsview Station would not have to be built under the existing station - they would be close enough to share the bus terminal though. (The station is shown at Faywood, although it may not be needed since the Downsvew Station would extend well East of Dufferin). There would be twin tunnels going under Spadina at Sheppard - which would add some complexities - but the remaining ramps would go above the existing Spadina line, plus all the construction would involve simple excavation and is to the west of Allen road (and south of Sheppard) with minimal to no disruption to traffic. Construction does get a bit close to the runway, which may be a problem.

The last thing is that all trains would consist of 8 cars, except for the Sheppard-Vaughan subway (blue) which would consist of 4 cars. For all stations at Bloor and north, the front of the trains would line up with the end of the platform and the last car, plus perhaps one door from the 7th car, would not line up with the platform and would not open. (When on the Sheppard line, the last 4 cars would not line up at the station and would not have doors open). For all stations south of Bloor, the back of the train would line up with the end of the platform and the first car, plus perhaps one door from the 2nd car, would not line up this the station and would not open. Some smart commuters would enter the 7th car north of Bloor and walk-through to the 8th car so they could disembark from the last car south of Bloor. These 8 car trains would have 30% more capacity than the current 6 car trains. (As stations get busier, the platforms on select high-volume stations could be increased so that the full 8 car train would fit - I am thinking Yonge-Bloor and Union where adding some extra platform length is easier than adding a whole new platform)
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Rainforest said:
True. However, it took him more than 2 1/2 years to actually do something useful for transit.

Essentially, the plan currently on the table is consistent with the proposal of George Smitherman, Ford's main rival. SRT is replaced with a subway while all other Transit City lines remain in place.
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This was essentially Ford's plan as well. He wanted the Sheppard subway to STC and B-D to STC. Metrolinx and the Province told him that the vehicle order was already placed and the solution had to involve LRT. Two and a half years later, both Metrolinx and the Province changed their mind and now have no concerns about cancelling the LRT order - in fact they feel the subway is the best solution. Also, more than half of Council stated that they took the transit file away from Ford. Come election time, Council (and Metrolinx and the Province) can easily be blamed for all delays.
 
Sheppard LRT won't be built. Watch somebody come up with a scheme to build it to connect it to the she station that might go up at Sheppard and McCowan for an easy journey to the Scarborough Town Centre.
 
This all politics. The Feds decided to cough up money to help protect conservative ridings just as the provincial liberals suddenly found the money. Its disgusting. Why all this attention on a Scarborough subway line when what we urgently need is a downtown relief line.
 
marsh said:
This all politics. The Feds decided to cough up money to help protect conservative ridings just as the provincial liberals suddenly found the money. Its disgusting. Why all this attention on a Scarborough subway line when what we urgently need is a downtown relief line.
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Of course it's political. Politicians know transit is a hot issue in this region and they will politicize it to their advantage. You can never separate politics from transit. As long as there is public money involved in building transit, it always be politicized.
 
Adjei said:
Of course it's political. Politicians know transit is a hot issue in this region and they will politicize it to their advantage. You can never separate politics from transit. As long as there is public money involved in building transit, it always be politicized.
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There really needs to be a discussion how to remove politics from transit. It's one of the biggest issues in the region in my opinion.
 
RPM said:
nice feather in Ford's cap...

have to give him credit when it's due... damn the naysayers
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What has Ford actually done personally to bring this about?

There are still a couple questions to be answered:

1. Is the Fed money just going to be shifted from the LRT? (I.e. is this actually new money or old?)

2. Will the city still be expected to kick in money as well, and if so, how are we going to raise this money?
 
Solid Snake said:
The only positive thing about this council is that they just started to get vocal on how the Feds have abandoned Toronto in the transit files while they invest in other cities across the country. And you know what? We got their attention...

I remember when Baird told us to F*** off. Now, Flaherty was open to additional funds and when the province blindsided the Feds, they were quick on the defensive and remind us that they had a deadline. I honestly think that it's unlikely that they will let the Wynne Government make a fool out of them. We need to keep the pressure on the Feds.
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Seems that it paid off for council to call out the Feds and I truly hope this is an eye opener for council. They MUST keep the pressure on. Like I had said a few weeks earlier, there was no way the Feds would let the Liberals make a fool of them and now, they will get all the credit.

Like the US and European countries, the Feds MUST commit to Public transit investments and projects on a regular basis...not once in a while to win votes and save face.

I'm proud "for once" that our city council acted with leadership and might have paved the way for other major Canadian cities to put additional pressure for a National Transit fund/plan.

With Montreal extending their blue line, I expect Montreal and the province to do the same to help finance their subway extension.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
There really needs to be a discussion how to remove politics from transit. It's one of the biggest issues in the region in my opinion.
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It gets political when there's a shortage of money. Then, hard choices needs to be made and everybody have their own idea or brilliant ideas *cough* Transit City *cough*

Funny that in cities like New York, Paris and London, everyone just seems to just agree on what needs to be done since their respective Federal level is more than ready to invest...unlike here
 
CityPlaceN1 said:
As long as its new money and not just old money going elsewhere which is what I suspect.
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I wouldn't lose sleep over Sheppard LRT losing its funding. Sheppard is not a priority. After the Scarborough subway, the DRL is #1-2-3-4-5 priority. PERIOD

Both Finch and Sheppard can still be upgraded with reserved lane and express branch on their respective bus routes
 
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