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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

kEiThZ said:
His Western base also cares about staying in power.

The proposed subway extension now puts all of Scarborough and a good chunk of the eastern 905 within a 15-20 min drive. Max 30 mins by GO bus. Most of Pickering is now within a 20 minute drive of a subway stop at STC. And a good chunk of Markham (all of what's south of the 407) is now within a 15 minute drive of a terminus subway stop at McCowan/Sheppard. You think those residents (errr...voters) won't care about that? If the Feds don't deliver, they will be the party that cancelled the eastern subway, not Rob Ford. And, regardless of what the federal NDP and Liberals think of LRT vs. Subway debates, they will have ammunition to beat the Conservatives with all over the eastern GTA. You can bet Flaherty is under pressure to deliver now. There's more than just Scarborough voters and ridings involved.

Anyway, let's see what happens. No harm in asking is there? Worst case scenario is a "No" and we go back to the SLRT.
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You make a lot of sense when you talk about electric regional rail but then you essentially say people are too ignorant to know any better than subways subways subways so taxpayers should waste a couple billion to keep those people happy and satisfied. The fact that it brings the subway to your own personal doorstep is coincidence.

Why would people in Pickering or Markham care? I'm sure you're going to produce reports that show that there are thousands and thousands of them needing to commute to Greektown every morning.
 
Tulse said:
So how is that at all like the scheme you propose, where buses and trams are the responsibility of the municipality?
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They will be roll into Metrolinx with the option they are operated by the municipality or be contract out like York Region. Expect more York Region system.

This idea was first floated when Metrolinx was being born. A lot of this is hamper at this time as how to deal with the existing unions short of union busting.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Subway it is - 28 to 16 (provided the Fed Prov commitment holds)

AoD
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But when you say "holds" you imply there is a firm federal commitment. Ford's stumping is the only affirmation we have that any kind of agreement exists. Seems weird to talk about what a "historic" day this is for Toronto. I could VOTE for a subway. Actually building it is a rather different thing.

I think it will be tricky for the feds to stick their nose in without getting involved with The Big Move (or, more to the point, their piecemeal involvement would undermine The Big Move, by its very nature) but what do I know? On the one hand, the feds like going on about how they don't tell municipalities how to prioritize infrastructure but that seems rather suspicious when the only infrastructure they do pay for is in one-time funding agreements for specific projects....
 
BurlOak said:
The best way to get the DRL is to have the ECLRT elevated over Eglinton and connected with the SRT. That way it can be sold to Scarborough that they have the option of staying on the ECLRT to uptown, transferring at Don Mills to reach downtown, or transferring at Kennedy to reach midtown. Those in lower Scarborough have a less crowded Danforth line - that also benefits those all along to Yonge. The ECLRT also provides an alternate route incase of closures or delays. East York and Downtown get a new subway line. North York gets less delays on the Yonge subway.

The worst way to get the DRL is to go with the current LRT plan. Scarborough is being forced onto the Danforth subway at Kennedy. Bloor-Yonge is more crowded and many of those same Scarberians are almost forced to make another transfer - that some (many will not do). This means the Yonge line is not relieved that much and North York and Toronto suffers. There is less reason to extend the DRL up to Eglinton so East York looses out. Toronto does get their new east-west subway line.

I would put the subway plan somewhere in between. It does eat up a fair bit of money though, and it also provides little incentive to have the DRL go to Eglinton, so I would definitively put it closer to the bad way of achieving a meaningful DRL.
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I still like this idea (first paragraph). Well thought out. BurlOak should consider transit planning.
 
kEiThZ said:
His Western base also cares about staying in power.

The proposed subway extension now puts all of Scarborough and a good chunk of the eastern 905 within a 15-20 min drive. Max 30 mins by GO bus. Most of Pickering is now within a 20 minute drive of a subway stop at STC. And a good chunk of Markham (all of what's south of the 407) is now within a 15 minute drive of a terminus subway stop at McCowan/Sheppard. You think those residents (errr...voters) won't care about that? If the Feds don't deliver, they will be the party that cancelled the eastern subway, not Rob Ford. And, regardless of what the federal NDP and Liberals think of LRT vs. Subway debates, they will have ammunition to beat the Conservatives with all over the eastern GTA. You can bet Flaherty is under pressure to deliver now. There's more than just Scarborough voters and ridings involved.

Anyway, let's see what happens. No harm in asking is there? Worst case scenario is a "No" and we go back to the SLRT.
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Why not just bring it to McCowan/Finch?
 
kEiThZ said:
I would hope that Metrolinx eventually becomes like Transport for London.

TfL manages London Underground and London Overground. It also manages taxi licensing, fare payment (Oyster card), the strategic road network, collection of the congestion charge, and trams and buses in London proper. I would love to see Metrolinx take over all long haul transit lines in the GTHA (including LRTs in Mississauga, York, etc.), the subway network, taxi licensing and highway management. Leave the municipalities to manage the local services and infrastructure they are best at.
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I agree with most of that, except for the local transit part. I'd like to see 7 divisions within Metrolinx: Rapid Transit (GO, Subway, LRT, BRT), Toronto, Durham, York, Peel, Halton, and Hamilton. Each division would be owned and managed by Metrolinx, but would liaise with the municipalities they cover to offer tailored local service. The exception to that of course would be Rapid Transit, which is the umbrella division.

drum118 said:
They will be roll into Metrolinx with the option they are operated by the municipality or be contract out like York Region. Expect more York Region system.

This idea was first floated when Metrolinx was being born. A lot of this is hamper at this time as how to deal with the existing unions short of union busting.
Click to expand...

Well, Union-busting would be one way of getting the conservatives on board with the plan. Personally, I think GO Transit's model of contracting out is the way to go.
 
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TJ O'Pootertoot said:
I think it will be tricky for the feds to stick their nose in without getting involved with The Big Move (or, more to the point, their piecemeal involvement would undermine The Big Move, by its very nature) but what do I know? On the one hand, the feds like going on about how they don't tell municipalities how to prioritize infrastructure but that seems rather suspicious when the only infrastructure they do pay for is in one-time funding agreements for specific projects....
Click to expand...

You do have to wonder what is the value of having a central planning body like Metrolinx and a co-ordinated plan like the Big Move if any municipality that does not like any specific part of the plan can just start a whole round of politicing and reach out to the province/feds for funding to deviate from the plan.

Am I missing something or should we just tear up the plan now?
 
TOareaFan said:
You do have to wonder what is the value of having a central planning body like Metrolinx and a co-ordinated plan like the Big Move if any municipality that does not like any specific part of the plan can just start a whole round of politicing and reach out to the province/feds for funding to deviate from the plan.

Am I missing something or should we just tear up the plan now?
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Seems like it's only Toronto that has that ability. Don't see too many other GTHA municipalities flip-flopping on their priorities.
 
Amusingly the SRT conversion stations site plan zoning applications popped up just yesterday on the city planning website.

It other news I preferred the SRT alignment but I'm happy with today's decision.
 
So. Toronto City Council voted to ask everyone in Toronto to pay higher taxes and development charges, and everyone in Ontario to chip in 30 bucks or so, and everyone in Canada to chip in about 10 bucks, so that a few tens of thousands of folks in Scarborough don't have to walk 200 feet to change trains 10 years from now, although about half of them would still need a bus because their station had been closed or cancelled. Because ... because everyone in Ontario and Canada is so convinced that Rob Ford is a great planner (despite it's being clear that he didn't understand how the previous funding commitments worked, or what the route of the line he wanted to scrap actually was). I can't see how this could fail.
 
nfitz said:
Toronto previously voted to contribute to the last subway expansion (Spadina).

Remember, they are doing this by debt financing, and then raising taxes to pay off the detb over X (25? 30?) years. They can only do this, because Toronto's total debt is lower than the legally mandated ceiling. However, by increasing Toronto's total debt, they remove the ability to use that money for other doing projects with debt financing (like the DRL, more new streetcars, community housing).
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Gardiner, the $1B in various flood protection plans (EAs completed long ago), various major watermain projects, etc.
 
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