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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

What's changed since the reports years ago that TTC had approached TransLink about getting some of those used cars then? Presumably they'd be modified as part of the rebuild.
Honestly I can't say but if the TTC was honestly expecting to retrofit TransLinks trains with Drivers cabs then I am shocked at such a potential waste of cash. It would be far cheaper to just remove operators from the current trains and then run them (and any purchased TransLink units) in full ATO. Not to mention it could make the line more efficient.
 
Honestly I can't say but if the TTC was honestly expecting to retrofit TransLinks trains with Drivers cabs then I am shocked at such a potential waste of cash. It would be far cheaper to just remove operators from the current trains and then run them (and any purchased TransLink units) in full ATO. Not to mention it could make the line more efficient.
Maybe they were ... though I assume that all the controls exist on a Vancouver train, behind a panel or something. Would it be that difficult to adjust?

Hey, here's a thought. They are in pairs, but in reality they only run in 4-car trains. Any reason not to use 4 cab-less Translink cars along with 4 TTC cars, and create two 4-car trains, that would have the two cab-less trains in the centre? Which I guess means four pairs where one has the cab, and one doesn't - with various cars pointing in the appropriate directions. Would need a bit more management on train assembly ...

I can't imagine they'd start adding the necessary infrastructure for full automation now, with only a decade or so before the line closes - as opposed to a decade ago, when it as only a decade before the line closes.

(Tomorrow - it's always a day away!)
 
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Maybe they were ... though I assume that all the controls exist on a Vancouver train, behind a panel or something. Would it be that difficult to adjust?

I can't imagine they'd start adding the necessary infrastructure for full automation now, with only a decade or so before the line closes - as opposed to a decade ago, when it as only a decade before the line closes.

(Tomorrow - it's always a day away!)
This is honestly all you get on TransLink's MK.I tranis

IMG_4791.jpg

CGS_0186.jpg
 
I don't see why not. The trains would need to be arranged as Translink in the center 2 cars with TTC units on each end.
 
A marvelous article. "It could also mean an influx of at least 9,000 more residents, but some say that might not translate into increased subway ridership, thanks to a deep-rooted car culture and previous planning decisions."

How much do they expect the ridership to increase in the existing environment? No word. How much could it increase if the area was designed differently? No word either. Can as well wait 5 years, and count the ridership at the time.

"It is the mentality of the people who live in North York: Most people just drive everywhere." The authors should visit the Finch and Sheppard stations during the rush hours. If all those riders aren't North Yorkers, then they must be martians. Landing in their saucers onto the parking lots, and taking the subway to their downtown jobs.

Last but not least: if there was a way to add another 50,000 daily riders to Sheppard subway, 3/4 of them transferring to Yonge line and heading south; what would that do to the Yonge's downstream capacity?
 
Not to mention that Toronto's subway ridership is driven by feeder buses, not residential density (especially in the suburbs).

Yes.

We shouldn't mix two separate groups of issues. One is the subway network expansion, driven by the optimal anchoring of the surface feeder routes. This affects the majority of the city's residents.

Another is creating the local density, including whether or not to build mid-block subway stations such as Bessarion, Glencairn, Chester etc. Local density is desirable, but it only affects smaller number of people living in the vicinity, and therefore should be subordinate to the network goals.
 
That being said, I do think we should have high density at each higher order transit stop/station.
 
Yes - and why is that?
Because people don't like walking, and generally, people living in dense areas have all the services they need within walking distances, meaning they don't have to use the TTC. Dense areas, in general, also tend to have a lot more transportation services nearby, so people getting to work have lots of options for getting around. People who depend on one feeder bus route to take them to one particular station do not have this luxury. There are a lot of gaps in the bus network along the Sheppard line and through north York. Because of the zoning restrictions, nimbyism, and the TTC's budget/bus/resource shortages, I'm convinced that the main reason the Sheppard line isn't more popular is because of existing policies that prevent it from thriving. I know plenty of people living up there that want to use it, but cannot due to the difficulties of working with the last mile solution.

Eventually, the line will be an important crosstown route that could eventually connect with Line 1 twice, the relief line (In whatever form it is built as), the RH line, the Stouffville line, and Line 2, but that's decades in the future. We need to fix Line 1's capacity constraints first. People need to understand that not all growth happens at once, and that transportation usage in it of itself is impossible to truly predict. Bessarion was never built with a bus station or other amenities because it doesn't demand them and doesn't have the road network to warrant them, it was built for a planned development that would be one of the largest in the city. No one knew when it was going to be built, but 20 years later, we're now seeing that there might be some benefit to the station in the near future. Could there have been better ways of building the line, maybe complete the station at a later date like NYC? Potentially, but there's also financial risk with that, building stations is much more expensive now than it was in 2002, and there are questions over whether such a station would ever be built, regardless of Park Place's construction. However, that being said, other stations on the line might have benefited from those resources being spent elsewhere at the time. Bayview might have benefitted from a fare-paid area bus terminal for the Bayview buses, and both Bayview and Leslie may have benefitted from increased bus routes connecting the stations. We'll never know for sure, unless the TTC takes an active interest in running more local routes out of Leslie, which may not be a bad idea when the new bus garage opens.
 
A marvelous article. "It could also mean an influx of at least 9,000 more residents, but some say that might not translate into increased subway ridership, thanks to a deep-rooted car culture and previous planning decisions."

How much do they expect the ridership to increase in the existing environment? No word. How much could it increase if the area was designed differently? No word either. Can as well wait 5 years, and count the ridership at the time.

"It is the mentality of the people who live in North York: Most people just drive everywhere." The authors should visit the Finch and Sheppard stations during the rush hours. If all those riders aren't North Yorkers, then they must be martians. Landing in their saucers onto the parking lots, and taking the subway to their downtown jobs.

Last but not least: if there was a way to add another 50,000 daily riders to Sheppard subway, 3/4 of them transferring to Yonge line and heading south; what would that do to the Yonge's downstream capacity?

That article is obvious baiting. Many stations on the two major subway lines are underachievers too yet no one is complaining about their existence. It just that everything associated with the Sheppard Line and building subways in the suburbs in general gets observed under a microscope even though these lines expansions would prove to be far more affordable per kilometre than the DRL/Ontario Line cost estimates ever could hope to be. Oh and an aside, let's stop comparing the ridership levels of a 5.4 km subway line with 5 stops to a 14 kilometre streetcar route with 30+ stops please. It's deceptive.
 
That article is obvious baiting. Many stations on the two major subway lines are underachievers too yet no one is complaining about their existence. It just that everything associated with the Sheppard Line and building subways in the suburbs in general gets observed under a microscope even though these lines expansions would prove to be far more affordable per kilometre than the DRL/Ontario Line cost estimates ever could hope to be. Oh and an aside, let's stop comparing the ridership levels of a 5.4 km subway line with 5 stops to a 14 kilometre streetcar route with 30+ stops please. It's deceptive.
I wouldn't say the article is at all saying don't build subways in the suburbs, but that subways are built in areas without adequate density and planning to support that investment. Besides Sheppard not being terribly walkable and stations not all properly integrated into developments can contribute to its lack of success it's also because it's too short a line to really serve a purpose at this point. The Sheppard LRT plan seemed to have been derided, but it definitely should be resurrected for increasingly Line 4's usefulness at a reasonable cost.
 
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I wouldn't say the article is at all saying don't build subways in the suburbs, but that subways are built in areas without adequate density and planning to support that investment. Besides Sheppard not being terribly walkable and stations not all properly integrated into developments can contribute to its lack of success it's also because it's too short a line to really serve a purpose at this point. The Sheppard LRT plan seemed to have been derided, but it definitely should be resurrected for increasingly Line 4's usefulness at a reasonable cost.
Except it wouldn't, Sheppard east should just stay as a BRT route until the ridership justifies the eastern extension, there are already too many transfers along that corridor. We all have to keep in mind that Sheppard itself was never envisioned to be this short and stubby, it was a part of a bigger plan that would have seen the line run from Sheppard West to the STC, with an Eglinton West subway. Had these plans come to fruition we may be having a different discussion, but right now the constant bashing of the line doesn't help anyone, especially since the city has bigger capital projects to worry about. A lot of the line's issues are the fault of the city's own practices and ridership has a huge potential to grow along the corridor (especially with the increases in gas prices and the available housing up there). Let's see what happens.

Also, no city in North America should be bitching about 50K PPD on a 5.5 km line, it's small compared to the rest of the city, sure, but compared to the rest of North America, it's pretty high. Public transit is public, it shouldn't have to operate at a huge profit in order to be sustainable. Vancouver's Canada Line is a metro and sees 150K passengers over 20 km, the expo lines sees 290K passengers over 36.5 km, and the Millennium line sees 183.5K passengers over 25.5 km. Montreal's numbers are a bit weirder but it's not uncommon to see stations with riderships around 4-6K PPD. https://journalmetro.com/dossiers/l...s-de-metro-les-plus-et-les-moins-frequentees/ Bessarion might have been too soon, but the entire line shouldn't be given shit for that.
 

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