Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[nfitz]

The combined Eglinton-Scarborough LRT could have been completed on the same timelines as Eglinton. It was a plan that nobody opposed. It was only when Councillors and MPPs realized they could attack Ford that this plan fell apart.

Are you saying Rob and Doug Ford opposed the 3-stop subway and favoured LRT for Scarborough?

That seems unlikely ...

I don't know why Brimley and eglinton needs a station in a world where eglinton east lrt exists.

With the current plan to have the subway open by 2026 and fund the LRT sure. But with the new plan to defer the subway for years and cancel the LRT, then it's time to rethink.

Quite frankly, I don't see the need for a 6-car subway running every 2 minutes east of Kennedy. Why not create a spur, with one line going up McCowan, and the second staying on Eglinton to Eglinton GO station on Eglinton, just east of McCowan. Maybe run an LRT from there to UT Scarborough ..

It's slightly less than a kilometre from the western edge of the existing GO platform to the Eglinton/Danforth Rd intersection where the subway would be (995 metres according to Google Maps).

Put the Eglinton/Brimley/Danforth platform only on the Eglinton GO spur.

Seems a lost opportunity not to intersect with Eglinton GO for the sake of 1 km of track.

 

[BurlOak]

Are you saying Rob and Doug Ford opposed the 3-stop subway and favoured LRT for Scarborough?

That seems unlikely ...

When elected, Ford wanted the SSE (subway extension to STC).
Metrolinx convinced him to combine ECLRT and SRT.
He, and pretty well the entire city, were happy with this.

Then the Liberals and Councillors realized that Ford was weakening so they abandoned the combined plan. Liberals got Metrolinx to stay quiet on their own preferred plan.
When the Liberals and Councillors made a mess of the Scarborough transit file, Ford went back to support his original SSE plan.
(I admit I also supported the SSE plan before looking at the facts and realizing that STC had to be connected continuously to Yonge and other transit lines (DRL, RER, Spadina leg of Yonge, etc. )

Quite frankly, I don't see the need for a 6-car subway running every 2 minutes east of Kennedy. Why not create a spur, with one line going up McCowan, and the second staying on Eglinton to Eglinton GO station on Eglinton, just east of McCowan. Maybe run an LRT from there to UT Scarborough ..

It's slightly less than a kilometre from the western edge of the existing GO platform to the Eglinton/Danforth Rd intersection where the subway would be (995 metres according to Google Maps).

Put the Eglinton/Brimley/Danforth platform only on the Eglinton GO spur.

Seems a lost opportunity not to intersect with Eglinton GO for the sake of 1 km of track.

I thought B-D should be extended to Kingston Road - to connect with Eglinton GO, and well as Kingston Road BRT.
The combined ECLRT/SRT would be what connects STC.

 

[sixrings]

When elected, Ford wanted the SSE (subway extension to STC).
Metrolinx convinced him to combine ECLRT and SRT.
He, and pretty well the entire city, were happy with this.

Then the Liberals and Councillors realized that Ford was weakening so they abandoned the combined plan. Liberals got Metrolinx to stay quiet on their own preferred plan.

Where was the poll taken that supports your “he, and pretty well the entire city, were happy with this.” As a eglinton resident I somewhat agreed but saw the other side as well. I don’t think the plan had the universal support you suggest it did. It pretty much died as quick as it was proposed so I don’t really buy the liberal and city councillor conspiracy you claim in the next paragraph.

 

[BurlOak]

Where was the poll taken that supports your “he, and pretty well the entire city, were happy with this.” As a eglinton resident I somewhat agreed but saw the other side as well. I don’t think the plan had the universal support you suggest it did. It pretty much died as quick as it was proposed so I don’t really buy the liberal and city councillor conspiracy you claim in the next paragraph.

It was on the table for 9 months - and not much of a complaint from anyone. It was the Stintz OneCity plan that lasted a matter of weeks - until the Liberals and Councillors realized the dislike for the transfer LRT plan. Then they both tried to come up with their own subway extension plan, but careful not to revert to the only plan that Metrolinx said was best because it would give Ford some credit.

 

[nfitz]

Then the Liberals and Councillors realized that Ford was weakening so they abandoned the combined plan ...

That's an interesting revisionist history - though there's no doubt all the parties are for blame here, with various BS from everyone.

But Karen Stintz was hardly a Liberal. Nor John Tory who has pushed for this, and then the 1-stop idiocy.

 

[OneCity]

That's an interesting revisionist history - though there's no doubt all the parties are for blame here, with various BS from everyone.

But Karen Stintz was hardly a Liberal. Nor John Tory who has pushed for this, and then the 1-stop idiocy.

@BurlOak speaks truth here.

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_h...secretly-helped-kill-the-scarborough-lrt.html

They didnt want to let Ford get the "win" or compromise.

Premier McGuinty, Toronto mayor announce new transit projects

<p>Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty may have found a way to call off Ford Nation.</p>

www.therecord.com

 

[tiffer24]

Scarborough RT reached "critical" vehicle shortage last month, a bad sign for a line that is supposed to last at least another seven or more years.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...hed-critical-vehicle-shortage-last-month.html

 

[nfitz]

@BurlOak speaks truth here.

I said everyone is to blame here. BurlOak put it all on the Liberals - whhich isn't speaking the truth. It's actually speaking a mistruth. Yes some Liberals were involved. Yes, some NDP played along. And yes, a PC made the initial move in council that blew everything up.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Perhaps they could open up the extension to STC earlier so there’s no gap between RT closing and this opening.

 

[nfitz]

Scarborough RT reached "critical" vehicle shortage last month, a bad sign for a line that is supposed to last at least another seven or more years.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...hed-critical-vehicle-shortage-last-month.html

I'm not sure how having only 20 of 28 cars available is suddenly something new. Later on the article notes that things were worse already earlier this year. Historically they needed 24 cars at peak before they cut service levels - surely there must have been previous occasions in the last 35 years when they've had 2 pairs unavailable.

When do the rebuilds end, restoring them to 28 cars instead of 24 cars?

Would be nice to buy 4 used cars off Translink, and rebuild them as well, to bring them to 32. I don't think they even need any extra storage tracks for that - isn't there space for 32 in the existing storage tracks?

 

[syn]

More fake news - “streetcar style LRT”.
Not only is this logically inconsistent (for the 1029385th time - LRTs ARE NOT streetcars), but also it is patently FALSE that ANYONE fought for streetcars in Scarborough.

Get off the Rob Ford crack cocaine bro.

Are people still trying to compare the Scarborough LRT plan to a streetcar?!

It was an independent line completely separate from traffic and had full stations. It had a lot more in common with the proposed Ontario Line (which SSE supporters seem to be fine with) than it does with the King Streetcar.

That's an interesting revisionist history - though there's no doubt all the parties are for blame here, with various BS from everyone.

But Karen Stintz was hardly a Liberal. Nor John Tory who has pushed for this, and then the 1-stop idiocy.

No kidding.

Ford's plan was going to more than eat up all the budget available for other projects. It was something that had very little chance of ever getting approved, and he left no room for compromise.

 

[OneCity]

Are people still trying to compare the Scarborough LRT plan to a streetcar?!

No, no one here made that statement? I even clarified which lines were the streetcar LRT on the parts of the Crosstown & old SMLRT which will see slightly improved grade separation in the latest EELRT design. As that was one of the major issues with transit City

The SSE as well as the Sheppard LRT main issue was the transfer location and connection of the Centre. This item will certainly be no longer going to be an issue.

 

[sixrings]

Extra few billion to eliminate a transfer. just increase all of scarboroughs property tax to pay for it then.

 

[JSF-1]

Would be nice to buy 4 used cars off Translink, and rebuild them as well, to bring them to 32. I don't think they even need any extra storage tracks for that - isn't there space for 32 in the existing storage tracks?

I don't think that is much of an option given Vancouvers trains don't have Drivers cabs, so they would be opertating in full ATO. This is fine of course, but it doesn't really jell well when you also have trains on the line operating in semi-ATO. Either all the trains need to be operating in full ATO or none of them can. As long as the human factor remains using TransLink's trains is out of the question.

 

[nfitz]

I don't think that is much of an option given Vancouvers trains don't have Drivers cabs, so they would be opertating in full ATO.

What's changed since the reports years ago that TTC had approached TransLink about getting some of those used cars then? Presumably they'd be modified as part of the rebuild.