Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Solid Snake]

But did he say anything about the potential for federal funds currently allocated for the SELRT to be redirected to the BD extension? If that happens, I doubt the SELRT will survive.

That was implied by Cllr Moser who said he talked to "someone" from the Federal minister. That someone could have confused the Sheppard line with the Scarborough Line, who knows. Matlow, Perks, Layton and Mihevc just took that and ran with it. Officially, that was never on the table and city manager never talk about funds being redirected from pre-existing projects.

 

[Solid Snake]

@snake, Why?

The vehicule tax went to general revenue when it was supposed to be dedicated to transit or infrastructure (can't recall)

 

[Solid Snake]

You can make that argument if you want. The fact is that since the crappy downloading/amalgamation, the city was going hat in hand, to the province every single year saying - quite rightly- they couldn't balance their own books.

The province said, "We're not going to keep giving you a few fish a year, we're going to teach you to fish." Ergo, they gave the city a unique and broad range of powers to generate its own revenue.
A city like New York still has FAR more powers than Toronto (and correspondingly, a lot more taxes and, correspondingly, a lot more transit and other services) and Toronto has powers that most other municipalities in Ontario can only dream of having.

So, if the city chooses not to use those tools, they look pretty bad blaming upper levels of government for not coming to the rescue.

My point is : Tell people the truth. Don't tell them it's dedicated when you'll just include that tax into general revenue to make you look better. That's what pissed people off.

 

[RC8]

Glenn DeBaaremaker (sp?) making a decent point now. It's all factually incorrect if you dig deeper, but it may strike a few chords.

 

[Solid Snake]

^^^

I think his speech made a lot of sense.

 

[innsertnamehere]

But did he say anything about the potential for federal funds currently allocated for the SELRT to be redirected to the BD extension? If that happens, I doubt the SELRT will survive.

Ford himself has stated the funds can't be moved. The SELRT is safe. (For now)

 

[SJD_Toronto]

If the Bloor-Danforth extension is voted for, I think it'll itch by... With 25 votes or so.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

My point is : Tell people the truth. Don't tell them it's dedicated when you'll just include that tax into general revenue to make you look better. That's what pissed people off.

But nobody said it would be dedicated. I agree it probably SHOULD have been but that's not what Miller said, as far as I know.
Ford certainly didn't argue that the tax should only be used for transit. He eliminated based on the argument that the city does not need the revenue it generates which, if you ask me, is not the truth.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Josh Matlow is making an incredible amount of sense right now. He's using something called "facts". Unheard of in Council.

 

[Lansdude]

Josh Matlow is making an incredible amount of sense right now. He's using something called "facts". Unheard of in Council.

That was refreshing after De Baermaker's hard done by rhetoric.

 

[Solid Snake]

Josh Matlow is making an incredible amount of sense right now. He's using something called "facts". Unheard of in Council.

He uses facts that fits his arguments. He completely ignored that Andy Byford said

-The subway will have 14 000 pph
-Attracts more riders and new riders than the LRT although it will have less people within walking distance
-That the subway is viable and won't be a white elephant.

It's dishonest...at least acknowledge the other side of the argument and try to demolish them, not ignore them. He would have been more convincing if he brought up the additionnal pressure on Bloor Yonge (which is my main concern and how fast the DRL can get built)

 

[Electrify]

Haven't been following the latest developments, but if the concern about through running Eglinton to STC is capacity on the Yonge line, why not run a BRT from Don Mills down the DVP and across Richmond and Adelaide? Not ideal for the long term, but would allow for a better connected east end while not choking Yonge to death. Not to mention it could provide a much needed transit improvement through the lower end of downtown.

 

[RC8]

^^^

I think his speech made a lot of sense.

He's complaining that most of Toronto's transit infrastructure is downtown without considering that downtown produces the majority of Toronto's revenue and that arguably the transit deficit is greater downtown than in Scarborough.

He also failed to address why the subway would be any faster or more efficient or more desirable than the LRT. He made it out as if the LRT was an inferior option - when it isn't. 'People' may be clamouring for a subway, but they don't know it will take 10 years to build, and they don't know what the LRT looks like.

 

[Silence&Motion]

Ford himself has stated the funds can't be moved. The SELRT is safe. (For now)

Didn't Ford say that the federal SELRT money was just part of a "general transit fund" that was not tied to any specific project? And when asked by Mihevic whether the federal money for the SELRT would be protected, Ford responded by saying "I don't support LRTs".

BTW: I'm not asking these questions rhetorically as a way of arguing for the Scarborough LRT. I'm on the fence, but I would be completely against the Scarborough subway if it could potentially lead to the death of the SELRT.

 

[Silence&Motion]

On a side note, supporters of the DLR need to seriously think about rebranding that project. It just feeds into the whole "unfair" argument being made in support of suburban subways. It's not downtown residents who would benefit from the "relief" provided by the DLR.