Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[TheTigerMaster]

I was gonna say, Ford made a great case for social spending.

I agree. He almost sounded like a latte sipping downtown socialist for a second.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Just ducking out of an meeting and catching up. This is all falling apart. Several Councillors have serious concerns now that they've heard from Ford. No federal money is on the table and the City could be on the hook for up to $1.2B after the Province puts in its share. I'm going to say that there will have to be substantial amendements to satisfy those concerns or this proposal is dead.

Not surprised. I'm just hoping that new transit funding tools can come out of this.

 

[Solid Snake]

Just ducking out of an meeting and catching up. This is all falling apart. Several Councillors have serious concerns now that they've heard from Ford. No federal money is on the table and the City could be on the hook for up to $1.2B after the Province puts in its share. I'm going to say that there will have to be substantial amendments to satisfy those concerns or this proposal is dead.

I truly don't get the cult the Sheppard LRT is getting. I think Finch is way more important than Sheppard.

 

[RC8]

It is, but replacing 2 complete LRT lines with a subway with 3 stops is much different than how this issue was framed originally.

 

[Silence&Motion]

I truly don't get the cult the Sheppard LRT is getting. I think Finch is way more important than Sheppard.

I suspect that if the Sheppard and Scarborough LRTs both get killed, Finch won't survive either.

 

[Solid Snake]

It is, but replacing 2 complete LRT lines with a subway with 3 stops is much different than how this issue was framed originally.

-Ok, let's follow on that. Let's say that the money get's diverted from Sheppard, what's stopping council from using Ford taxes to make up for the 333M$ for Sheppard?

-The infrastructure program from the Feds is there and it remains to be seen what will come out of it. But first things first, council has to choose subway or LRT first before we even think of the Feds

-Ford just said that he made it clear to both the Provincial and Federal ministers that :

If they don't chip in, the subway is dead. Final

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I suspect that if the Sheppard and Scarborough LRTs both get killed, Finch won't survive either.

I think the chances of this happening are very, very low.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

-Ok, let's follow on that. Let's say that the money get's diverted from Sheppard, what's stopping council from using Ford taxes to make up for the 333M$ for Sheppard?

-The infrastructure program from the Feds is there and it remains to be seen what will come out of it. But first things first, council has to choose subway or LRT first before we even think of the Feds

You mean they have to choose it, AGAIN.

Listening to this debate, I'm just stunned by the hypocrisy of saying "there is only one taxpayer!" and also "Toronto taxpayers pay way too much" and also "we won't build anything unless the other levels of government give us money." And I say that as someone who believes the federal government's lack of transit funding is beyond embarrassing.

 

[Solid Snake]

I suspect that if the Sheppard and Scarborough LRTs both get killed, Finch won't survive either.

City Manager made it clear earlier. It's not all or nothing. It's subway or LRT (the current plan) That's it.

 

[Lansdude]

Not a big Adumb Vaughan fan but he's good at running socratic on Rob Fraud.

 

[Solid Snake]

Not entirely true. The Vehicle Registration Tax and Land Transfer Tax has been more than enough to cover them since they were implemented.

I disagree with the mayor's plan to reduce the land transfer tax since it paid for the streetcars in the end, but the Vehicule Registration tax was unfair, a lie and unnecessary

 

[Silence&Motion]

City Manager made it clear earlier. It's not all or nothing. It's subway or LRT (the current plan) That's it.

But did he say anything about the potential for federal funds currently allocated for the SELRT to be redirected to the BD extension? If that happens, I doubt the SELRT will survive.

 

[RC8]

@snake, Why?

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I disagree with the mayor's plan to reduce the land transfer tax since it paid for the streetcars in the end, but the Vehicule Registration tax was unfair, a lie and unnecessary

You can make that argument if you want. The fact is that since the crappy downloading/amalgamation, the city was going hat in hand, to the province every single year saying - quite rightly- they couldn't balance their own books.

The province said, "We're not going to keep giving you a few fish a year, we're going to teach you to fish." Ergo, they gave the city a unique and broad range of powers to generate its own revenue.
A city like New York still has FAR more powers than Toronto (and correspondingly, a lot more taxes and, correspondingly, a lot more transit and other services) and Toronto has powers that most other municipalities in Ontario can only dream of having.

So, if the city chooses not to use those tools, they look pretty bad blaming upper levels of government for not coming to the rescue.

 

[RC8]

Nunziata makes no sense whatsoever, complaining about St. Clair.