|
|
|
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
And you need a swift kick in your ass!
Are we fighting today? Give me a time and place. Not picking sides, but a transit nerd brawl sounds like quality entertainment. I’ll bring a steel chair!
drum118
Superstar
Anyone who believe the one stop subway wasn't going to cost much are seeing the results how wrong they were. I knew the numbers were wrong on day one and have waited for that other shoes to fall
Anyone who thinks they will be riding this extension come 2029 as claim by Tory, have rosy glasses on. It will be the mid 30's, if not 40's before they do.
If the LRT plan went ahead as plan, you be ridding the line this year if there were cars for it.
Ford is great at talking subway's and will be talking subway when he is shown the door with nothing to show for his time in office. If anything does get built, it will be a strip down cheap system that going to have to be rebuilt on someone else dime while in power.
The longer things get push off, it only going to cost more money to do it then compare today, as well of all kinds of problems. The SRT will be dead before this white elephant is running.
Anyone who thinks they will be riding this extension come 2029 as claim by Tory, have rosy glasses on. It will be the mid 30's, if not 40's before they do.
If the LRT plan went ahead as plan, you be ridding the line this year if there were cars for it.
Ford is great at talking subway's and will be talking subway when he is shown the door with nothing to show for his time in office. If anything does get built, it will be a strip down cheap system that going to have to be rebuilt on someone else dime while in power.
The longer things get push off, it only going to cost more money to do it then compare today, as well of all kinds of problems. The SRT will be dead before this white elephant is running.
hw621
Senior Member
What's with the 2029 date? It's planned to open 2026 no?
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Watching everything the naysayers have ever said about this project come true has been fascinating. And I mean that in the more morbid way possible. I've been pretty damn pessimistic about this project, and even I never thought it would get anywhere close to $4 Billion.
This. This new bullshit plan from Ford is going to take five years to get to the point where it's construction ready, assuming that the plan isn't upended a half dozen times in that time period (ha!). It would take an extreme stroke of luck to see this up and running anytime before 2030.
Politicians have mastered the art of selling transit to voters. But just because you sold it, doesn't mean you actually have to build it. The longer they drag this process out, the longer they can campaign on the proposal. They really have no incentive to get this thing ever built.
Yeah, my fear is that if this ever does get built, so many corners are going to be cut that we're going to have to spend billions on massive upgrades a few decades from now anyways (sound familiar? It's exactly what happened with the SRT). I have the same fear of the DRL as well. I have zero faith in Ford's Metrolinx to handle this competently at all. I'd much rather them just not build anything at this point. Do it right or just don't do it at all.
At this point I don't even find myself caring about this specifics of the subway proposal. It's not going to be built anyways. My primary concern now is just what the hell are we going to do about the SRT. The 10-year life extension will expire in 2026, and I don't think we can get any more life out of the line than that. The trains are having all kinds of structural issues that can't be fixed with a bandaid repair. There is a non-insignificant chance that the SRT is going to be decommissioned without a replacement ready due to our decision paralysis. 2026 isn't that far away; we've already been discussing its replacement for 14 years.
We better have Vancouver's TransLink on speed dial, because I suspect we might end up purchasing their worn out ICTS MK 1 vehicles whenever they're ready to decommission.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Oh, it was planned to open in 2026, if construction begun this year. Now who the hell knows. Nobody in government surely; they seem to be making the plans up as they go along
BurlOak
Senior Member
Egllnton tunnelling started in 2012, and it's expected to open in 2021 or 2022.
If 2026 was the plan, it's likely been abandoned already.
hw621
Senior Member
Judging how it was doing this winter, I'm not surprised it may even go out before 2026.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Did some more research, and it turns out that I remembered incorrectly. Metrolinx never proposed building a loop at Kennedy Station. Rather, they proposed building a new Kennedy Station, to allow the Line 2 trains to get on the SRT corridor:
I've attached the full report PDF to this comment. I recommend saving it, lest Metrolinx try to delete it at some point in the future.
The loop proposal we were thinking of was actually proposed by the TTC some time later, in an attempt to save money by getting the subway on the SRT corridor. The plan was scrapped, because it ended up being nearly as expensive, and tremendously increased travel time, among other negative impacts. I'm still trying to dig up some specific reporting on that proposal. It was discussed extensively in this thread though, so I'm sure at least one of us has the information on hand.
With that being considered, I'm not sure that what you said about the loop necessitating a relocation of the Eglinton LRT platform box holds true anymore. The proposed loop would be an easterly extension of the route labeled "existing subway tunnel" in the diagram. I don't see how that would interfere with the ECLRT station box.
I have my doubts about the affordability of this all. The loop would be extremely expensive, and so would demolishing and building new elevated guideways. This route is also by far the longest proposed Scarborough Subway route to date, which adds costs and increases travel time (thus decreasing ridership). That's the reason why TTC shot down this proposal in the first place. The traditional three-stop McCowan alignment is likely better bang for our buck.
Of course this comment assumes the the province is planning to run the subway on the surface in the SRT corridor. If their preferred alignment is indeed that bizarre alignment in the CBC article... well I'm not even going to bother analyzing that mess. The problems should be self-evident
Last edited:
Neutrino
Senior Member
There's the rub. Given the way things are done in this city, it's very unlikely the LRT would have avoided massive delays. Now, I'm not a fan of the buried one stop subway. I think we should have done a mix of cut-and-cover and elevated. But I have no faith an LRT would have magically been built any sooner. Our track record is much too poor for that and it's rose tinted glasses to present the situation as otherwise.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
This is more of a question out of curiosity, but why did they build Kennedy Station at this angle originally anyways? Wouldn't an alignment parallel to either, Eglinton Ave, NE/SW rail corridor, or N/S rail corridor make more sense?
BurlOak
Senior Member
I'd say it should have been parallel to neither.
- If the subway was to continue along the rail corridor, it should have been located roughly were the above proposal shown (maybe rotated another 10 or 20 degrees. That is way there could be just 1 curve to get onto the corridor (with Kennedy station roughly tangent to the line to the S-W). If they tried this, it likely would have required disrupting Eglinton traffic during construction.
- Same way if they wanted to continue along Eglinton, they would have placed it as they did - to approach Eglinton with a curve, then station on tangent, then another curve onto Eglinton. If it were parallel to Eglinton, it would had to make an S curve (consisting of 2 curves) to get onto Eglinton.
When looking at this problem in 2011, It appeared clear to me that the B-D should have been extended to Eglinton and Kingston. A BRT on Kingston could have received riders from UTSC and Pickering, and also continued on to Vic Park Station. The Eglinton LRT should have been grade separated through Golden Mile (and a bit more on either end) and extended up the SRT corridor to STC, Centennial, and Malvern. LRT can make tighter curves to accomplish this. A branch of the SRT could have gone to UTSC from Centennial.
Now, B-D won't get a station at Brimley/Eglinton because the LRT might be extended - no point adding an expensive station when there is a connection between the line 1 stop west. But nobody knows when, or if the, EELRT will be built. So this portion of Eglinton will be torn up with no benefit this time. If the EELRT finally gets built, its another long construction period.
rbt
Senior Member
Thanks for digging that up.
It's my understanding that in the final design for Kennedy Station has the Eglinton LRT tunnels and the subway tunnels at the same elevation, similar to below but with the SRT component deleted. The design you found had Eglinton tracks much closer to the surface (transfers were clumsier for customers) so the subway could duck under.
Last edited:
44 North
Senior Member
LOL. Everyone should just bring an old transit report. There's more than enough to go around. Roll one of those up and it can be a pretty lethal weapon, as is my understanding from Bourne Supremacy.
This is silly though that we've been reduced to deciphering a media-created doodle, which in turn was formulated via dribbled out info from a secretive provincial government. Can anyone that has twitter please message one of the people from Metrolinx and ask to see what the real plans are or what they're hiding.
sixrings
Senior Member
But the lrt costs would have gone up by now so we've crossed the point of no return and must build a subway to not waste any more time or tax dollars