Church-Wellesley Village

[don quixote]

The Future of Queer Neighbourhoods in Toronto

Tuesday January 29, 2008 - "The Future of Queer Neighbourhoods in Toronto" Panel Discussion" @ Gladstone Art Bar. Free - No Cover.

First Church Street, then the Queer West Village - as gentrification expands, where will Toronto's next gay enclave be? Can the gay community (and the city) survive without gaybourhoods? Join the discussion at Java Knights, a monthly gathering and public forum.

San Francisco's Castro District to Provincetown to Toronto, the hard bodied and cool are displaced in favour of cold hard cash. Gentrification is having a dramatic impact on everything from the GLBT bar scene to politics. The question is, can the GLBT Community survive and thrive without the cocoon of the traditional gay ghetto?

As the ghetto becomes more exclusive, regular gay and lesbian Americans and Canadians are forced to search for new neighbourhoods that are inclusive. For gays who enjoyed living in the traditional gayborhood, moving dramatically changes their quality of life.


This will be a philosophical discussion on GLBTQ new homesteads in city. The Q & A discussion, is a serious look at finding out why this is happening, and is it a good thing or bad thing?

We will be showing one or two of "Queer In the City Video's" ( 9 minutes each) recorded by the GLBT Historical Society. San Francisco CA in 2007 IV Clips 01, 14 and 15 of 15 - Queer Neighbourhoods of the Future. Panel Discussion and Q & A will follow videos.

Guest Panelists below :

Kevin Stolarick, (biography) PhD., MaRS Centre, Rotman School of Management, University of Toronto, former Pittsburgh resident now living in Toronto. Long-time research associate of Richard Florida (author of the Creative Class), collaborator of several projects with Dr. Gary Gates co-author of The Gay and Lesbian Atlas who is widely acknowledged as the nation's leading expert on the demography and geography of the gay and lesbian population. Stolarick is current Associate Director of the new Martin Prosperity Institute, Toronto.


John Colautti - Former co-ordinator of the Parkdale Village Business Improvement Area. Former president of the Parkdale Village Resident’s Association and one of the Founding members of the Parkdale Liberty Economic Development Corporation. John has been living in the Parkdale-High Park area for over 18 years with is life partner (Greg M.) and has been an active member of the community.

Dawn Chomitsch: While Dawn Chomitsch's roots are in northern Ontario, she now considers Queer Toronto her home. Educated in classical music performance, Dawn has been a percussionist in musical theatre and orchestras for over 15 years. Her love of film and desire to highlight women's contribution to the medium, as well as her determination to be active in the queer community came together with the opening of West Side Stories. Dawn lives with her partner, Nicole and their plants.


Tanya White: Tanya was born and raised in Sudbury Ontario. Worked in the Tattoo industry for 7 years moving on to become a certified Forklift, Reachtruck, Electric Pallet Jack, and Order Picker driver. After spending 34 years living in a small town decided to move to Queer Toronto. After a few months of living here decided to open up West Side Stories Video with business partner Dawn Chomitsch. West Side Stories Video is Toronto's first video rental store catering to WOMEN and the LgbT community, 1499 Dundas St. W., Queer West Village Toronto, Ontario


Michael Paré - Founder of Gay West Community Network, grew up in Parkdale High Park, Bloor West Village in the 60's. Michael has been instrumental in establishing the Queer West Village and has been a gay community activist in Toronto, for close to 30 years. Paré works part-time as an information specialist for Canadian Environmental Policy Institute. Previous career, running his own Toronto management and consulting (Professional Organizing) business called, Intergrated Services.


Moderator: Rui Pires, ACT Toronto

Event Location: Gladstone Hotel Art Bar - 1214 Queen St W at Dufferin -Hotel no. 416 531 4635 - FREE, fresh finger food served and soft drinks, cash bar from 7 PM to 9 PM. Street Map Please RSVP by email: javaknights@hotmail.com or Call 416-551-1709

More Info: Java Knights

 

[Venti de Milo]

It's sad to see Church St. conintue it's downward spiral. Is it Kyle Rae looking after this area? If so, it's TIME to get rid of him and get someone new. He's prove time over time that he sux (no pun intended).

First thing to clean up Church st. is its reputation! Gosh, even gay people don't like to go there. They always see it as a trashy place. They see dining OUTSIDE the village meaning they are normal. Trust me, if you are in the dating scene, most people's profile always put there's better life outside the village.

I personally don't see anything with going to the village. But alot of them do.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Can you define "downward spiral"? What is it about Church Street and it's reputation that needs to be cleaned up?

 

[JasonParis]

Warman leaves trail of debt
COMMUNITY NEWS / Former staff say they were stiffed
Josh Swan / Xtra / Friday, January 25, 2008

WORKING FOR FREE. Former Church St Bar manager Mark Stenabaugh says controversial businessman Marc Warman still owns him wages. (Josh Swan)

The former general manager of Church St Bar says controversial businessman Marc Warman still owes him $1,200 in unpaid wages.

Mark Stenabaugh says he was hired by Warman in August 2007 to run the bar at 501 Church St. Stenabaugh says he worked for Warman until the bar closed on Nov 14 after the landlord cancelled the lease for nonpayment of rent.

He says Warman and Powell were given an ultimatum by the building's landlord to pay the outstanding rent or be turfed the following day.

"Instead of being locked out and losing everything they decided they were just going to haul ass," says Stenabaugh.

Warman and Powell decided to spend the night moving the contents of Church Street Bar to 5 St Joseph St, another nightclub space Warman leased, says Stenabaugh. He adds that the bar's senior staff organized the move while customers and other staff were kept in the dark.

"At midnight the curtains got pulled and the doors got locked," recounts Stenabaugh. "It was me, our maintenance guy, two of our security girls, my boyfriend at the time and Marc Warman. We worked all night until like six in the morning. I've never seen a move so fast in all my life."

Stenabaugh says he had lunch with Warman and Powell in mid-December. He says Warman gave him $500 and told him he'd get the rest of the money owed to him later. But, says Stenabaugh, he hasn't seen or heard from Warman since.

When contacted by phone Warman refused to speak to Stenabaugh's allegations, threatening legal action if Xtra published the story. It's not the first time Warman has rattled that sabre. He made the same threat to Xtra reporter Rob Salerno last August after Buddies and Bad Times Theatre, Pride Toronto and club promoter Steve Ireson all alleged Warman stiffed them separately for money.

In a follow-up story after the bar's closure Xtra reported DJ and event planner Sean Young, former Warman employee Bryce Christmas and a half dozen other sources who declined to comment on the record, all alleged Warman stiffed them for money.

Warman told Xtra last year that he and his business partner Scott Powell planned Church Street Bar as a showcase for ManCandy Radio, an online radio station Warman told Xtra he founded in 2003.

"They wanted a place to showcase their music," says Stenabaugh. "When their music was showcased in the bar it wasn't very popular."

Stenabaugh says Warman and Powell were reluctant to book more traditional gay entertainment, even when it became apparent the Church Street Bar wasn't making money.

"The young kids that Church Street Bar was attracting, that listened to ManCandy Radio, had no money," says Stenabaugh.

 

[Venti de Milo]

Can you define "downward spiral"? What is it about Church Street and it's reputation that needs to be cleaned up?

When people think of Church st., all they think of is sex, drugs and one night stand.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

When people think of Church st., all they think of is sex, drugs and one night stand.

I for one, do not. I'm not aware of any of my friends who think that either.

I still don't see how sex or one night stands creates a downward spiral in a neighbourhood, is that illegal or something? Most clubs have a zero tolerance for drug dealers and work hard to enforce that. I've seen E'd out zombies at Fly and smelled poppers on Zipperz & The Barn's dance floors, that's the only recollection I have of drugs being used.

Church Street (The Village area) offers numerous clubs for the community and a myriad of restaurants, many of which are very good. There's also a great community centre, a terrific park, plenty of shopping at good prices, one of the very best video stores in the city (7 & 24 Video), banking, gourmet deli's, coffee for every taste and subway stations minutes away. In the past several years the business area of Church Street has slowly crawled further north, and south - with some failure but it's still worth noting.

The only problem I see here are the kids who flood into the neighbourhood once school finishes each summer. Some of them are petty drug dealers, thieves, panhandlers and yet others are completely harmless. But that's been happening for years now.

So if "sex" and "one night stands" are what creates a downward spiral to a community I'd suggest that we have problems in a lot more neighbourhoods than just Church Street.

 

[JasonParis]

When people think of Church st., all they think of is sex, drugs and one night stand.

Where do you get this stuff?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

From the Star:

Somewhere beyond the rainbow
As Church-Wellesley gets gentrified, gay, lesbian enclaves pop up all over town, `There's a lot of power in a centralized location, you feel that power, you feel in the majority. But in moving away you get the sense of being comfortable with anyone'

Jan 29, 2008 04:30 AM
San Grewal
Staff Reporter

"I remember, as recently as the late '90s," recalls Bryen Dunn, "when being openly gay in the Gladstone probably wouldn't have gone over too well."

The Gladstone Hotel, once a honky-tonk favourite of west-end down-and-outs lining up for cheap beer, tonight plays host to an entirely different demographic for "The Future of Queer Neighbourhoods in Toronto" panel.

Dunn, one of the organizers, laughs about how things have changed.

But not necessarily for the better, say other gay advocates who fear erosion of Toronto's gay village centred at Church and Wellesley Sts. comes at too high a price.

"The concern is the same over what's happening in San Francisco's Castro district, where gentrification is pushing out gay and lesbian people," says Kevin Stolarick, an expert on the geography and demographics of gay communities, who will participate in tonight's discussion.

Dunn, a local freelance journalist, helped organize the event as part of an ongoing series of public forums. Tonight's panel will include Stolarick, a University of Toronto academic who recently moved to Toronto from the United States, Michael Paré, the founder of the Gay West Community Network, Tanya White, owner of West Side Stories Video, in the Queer West Village and others who will open up a public discussion about the Toronto gay community's transition away from the traditional gay village.

With every new condo and the growth of Ryerson University in its back yard, the Church and Wellesley neighbourhood – within easy walking distance of downtown – has seen commercial and residential rents skyrocket in recent years.

That's part of the reason, says Stolarick, that traditional gay businesses and residents are now being squeezed out to make room for chain stores, developers and tenants willing to shell out the cash.

At the same time, he recognizes the upside to a community that feels mature and confident enough to venture beyond its limited comfort zone.

Along with the west-end area around Parkdale, where the Gladstone and other gay-friendly businesses have repositioned themselves, gay and lesbian enclaves have emerged throughout Toronto. Once homogenous hetero neighbourhoods such as Riverdale, Leslieville and the Beach are now home to a growing number of same-sex couples.

"It's a good thing," says Dunn. "You can live your entire life in Little Italy and never learn to speak English. If that's what you want, fine, but you should have the option to move beyond that."

Moving beyond that is a sign of not only the gay and lesbian community's maturity, Stolarick says. It also signals a deeper tolerance among the heterosexual community, which is growing more comfortable with the idea of gay neighbours.

"The creation of a gay ghetto is a defence mechanism," he says. "There's a lot of power in a centralized location, you feel that power, you feel in the majority. But in moving away you get the sense of being comfortable with anyone."

He also says there's an economic advantage in the long run to interacting with a broader community of innovators, consumers and potential business partners.

Meanwhile, with more gay-friendly businesses and social venues catering to the community, cheaper-rent neighbourhoods across the city are attracting a more adventurous younger generation coming out in an entirely different social atmosphere than their predecessors.

"It's good that people don't have to move to (Church and Wellesley) defensively any more," Stolarick says.

But he still likes the idea of independent gay and lesbian businesses, and resources being centred in one specific neighbourhood.

"When my friends come up from Pittsburgh, (the gay village) is the first place we go."

But Dunn suggests that as the number of same-sex couples with children grows, more and more people will leave the gay village.

"It's a party area. More couples want to live in an area where they can take their kids to a morning hockey game with everybody else."

If you go

WHAT:

Short video presentation, then panel discussion and Q&A on "The Future of Queer Neighbourhoods in Toronto"

WHEN:

Begins at 7 tonight

WHERE:


Gladstone Hotel Art Bar, 1214 Queen St. W.


AoD

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Venti de Milo:

When people think of Church st., all they think of is sex, drugs and one night stand.

Tell me, when one defines themselves as gay, are you talking about platonic love, or at the very end of the day, are you referring to sexuality - i.e. sexual attraction and activities? In that context, why shouldn't one think of sex? You made it sound as if it is something to be apologetic about.

AoD

 

[Venti de Milo]

Eh, if you read my post again...

I have no problem with Church, I go there sometimes.

But I know by talking to people in general. A lot of people don't go there. They think it's sleazy. They'd rather dine somewhere else. Have you heard of "there's life outside Church St.?" Well, I heard that phrase a lot esp in those dating profiles. Many people used to go there (including my friends) don't go anymore.

Is Church St. bad, of course not, as I said, I go there sometimes. But to many people, it just has this bad reputation/image.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Venti de Milo:

Trust me, if you are in the dating scene, most people's profile always put there's better life outside the village.

Then again, a good chunk of the said individuals also considered themselves to be straight-acting, no? Why use these individuals as the baseline as to what the village should or shouldn't be? If they need life outside the village, they can go get that - there is no need to turn the latter into yet another "outside".

Just like there is no need to have a village that have fine dining for the sake of having it.

AoD

 

[adma]

Think of it this way: a homo version of the bad/punchline rep Young & Eligible used to have...or that the Entertainment District has now...

 

[Jonny5]

It's sad to see Church St. conintue it's downward spiral. Is it Kyle Rae looking after this area? If so, it's TIME to get rid of him and get someone new. He's prove time over time that he sux (no pun intended).

First thing to clean up Church st. is its reputation! Gosh, even gay people don't like to go there. They always see it as a trashy place. They see dining OUTSIDE the village meaning they are normal. Trust me, if you are in the dating scene, most people's profile always put there's better life outside the village.

You mean if you are into the "online" dating scene. From my brief adventure into the online dating world, it became obvious that people simply write whatever they think other people want to hear in their profiles. People write they don't like to go to Church Street to imply that they are different and somehow better than people who do. They make up or use stereotypes about the area to further this. That's the primary source of the "reputation".

 

[JasonParis]

While I have no scientific numbers to back this up, it's also well known (and experience has shown me this), that much of the online gay dating scene is made up of people who aren't 100% comfortable with their sexuality and/or are completely on the "down low" about it. Either way, they aren't the type to be saying "I like hanging on Church Street" in general.

 

[JasonParis]

A couple new tidbits...

Pinochio (502 Yonge St) has a new owner -- Rob Wolvin -- and he's one of the bar's former busboys. He plans the following:

I want to have a men's pub, the kind of place where it's comfortable to sit and have a pint and visit with your friends during the day. I want to have an eclectic mix of entertainment at night. I'm going to feature as much live entertainment as possible.

He's also planning on playing lots of "new country" and having nights devoted to the following: Carribbean, Latin, College and Bollywood.

The relaunch party will be Sat. Feb. 16th.

=================

There's an eviction notice at 5 St. Joseph St, formerly 5ive. This is where Marc Warman was supposedly opening Man Candy in March.