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Canada inches toward private medicine

In any event, the day the first boomer hits 65 will be the day we will all wave good bye to our socialist experiment in health care.

aren't private insurance companies socialist also?

private insurance doesn't mean better service as the article clearly proves. speak to some americans and they will confirm.

the only way to get good healthcare is to have lots of money, that way no insurance company will decide for the doctor or yourself what kind of healthcare should be delivered to you. great healthcare is only for the rich.

the best way to improve our system is to have accountability and possibly have the private sector involved somehow, like you mentioned. we should also have reciepts made out when we use the services. these reciepts should be sent to ohip by the user to prove the use of services so doctors can't cheat the system.

one way we can help take some strain off the healthcare system for the future is to ban trans-fats and other unhealty food ingredients which are proven to harm but are still legal.
 
US leads way in medical errors: study

By Susan Heavey 2 hours, 12 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Patients in the United States reported higher rates of medical errors and more disorganized doctor visits and out-of-pocket costs than people in Canada, Britain and three other developed countries, according to a survey released on Thursday.


Thirty-four percent of U.S. patients received wrong medication, improper treatment or incorrect or delayed test results during the last two years, the Commonwealth Fund found.

Thirty percent of Canadian patients reported similar medical errors, followed by 27 percent of those in Australia, 25 percent in New Zealand, 23 percent in Germany and 22 percent in Britain, the health care foundation said.

"Driven up by relatively high medication and lab or test errors, at 34 percent, the spread between the United States and the countries with the lowest error rates was wide," Cathy Schoen, senior vice president of Commonwealth Fund, wrote in the journal Health Affairs, which published the study on its Web site.

The Commonwealth Fund says its mission is to support independent research on health care issues.

Researchers, who conducted the poll between March and June, questioned adults who had experienced some kind of serious condition that required "intense" medical treatment or had been hospitalized for something other than routine pregnancy.

"Overall patient experiences often paint a picture of no person or team responsible for ensuring that care is coordinated and continuous, with a focus on patients' needs," Schoen said.

Patients in the United States reported the highest rate of disorganized care at doctor's offices -- 33 percent -- followed by Germany with 26 percent, Canada with 24 percent and New Zealand with 21 percent. Patients in Britain and Australia reported 19 percent.

U.S. patients also stood out for shouldering more medical expenses than those in the other countries. More than half said they did not take their medicines or see a doctor because of costs.

In the United Kingdom, where health care is subsidized by the government, 13 percent of patients polled said they went without care.

Overall, "shortfalls were particularly evident for people when discharged from the hospital, and for patients seeing multiple physicians," Schoen said.

Between 700 and 750 adults were surveyed by telephone in Canada, Australia and New Zealand, and about 1,500 in Britain, Germany and the United States.

The poll's error margin was plus or minus 4 percentage points in Australia, Canada and New Zealand, 3 points in Germany and the United States and 2 points in Britain.
 
It's interesting to see what health care providers do now to prevent medical errors. Such as reading out loud what's said on the label of a medication to a second person before administering it or writing "THIS LEG" on a leg with thick black marker before heading into the OR to prevent the wrong limb being operated on.
 
I reckon the only other two places in the world that have replicated the Canadian health care system are Cuba & North Korea.

Interesting, then, that despite its massive problems and relative poverty, Cuba still enjoys a life expectancy longer than that in the U.S.
 
...and no doubt greater quality of life to go with it, though one ought to explain the one-way traffic of boats from Havana to Miami.
 
I don't know why the US is used as example and US sources cited when talking about some degree of healthcare privatization. Everyone can agree that the US is NOT the system to emulate. The US spends by far the most public money on healthcare in the world with mediocre results. I also don't understand why people take such a hardline view that private clinics will reek havoc on the public system. Almost all countries have dual private / public healthcare systems and Canada DOES NOT have the best health care system in the world. I also don't understand the insistance that healthcare isn't eating up more and more of the countries tax resources. Recently it was announced (star I believe) that Ontario is spending HALF of all it's tax revenue on healthcare, has this ever been the case at any time in history? Health spending increased something like 8-12 percent per year for the last few years, the economy is growing at what, 2.2 percent?
 
Some very good points, Tdot. It's true that there's a bit of an obsession with US healthcare over here and that regardless of any changes we make, our system is very unlikely to ever look like theirs. And progressive-type Americans who are looking for improvement to their system don't generally look at Canada for ideas, they look at European countries like France or Switzerland (perhaps we should too?). I don't know what's going to happen to our system but I have a feeling it's not sustainable as it is. Like you said, with our ageing population, health care costs go up 10-12% per year which is far more than what the economy grows by. Either we have to hugely crank up government spending by jacking up taxes, delist a bunch of services, introduce some sort of "pay as you go along" system or get the private sector much more involved. I don't know what the solution is but it's something we'll need to debate and it's something we should try to approach without any biases or preconceptions.
 
Ill start off by saying that yes, Canada's Healthcare system does have problems and challenges that it needs to address. There is the issue of an aging population and there is also the issue of increased costs.

And while I can view ideas open mindedly I would still argue that privatization is not an option we should be exploring at this time.

What I would see as being a better idea is to look at efficiency and increase the investment that we have, and probably more important than that, prevention. And its also worth noting that Im also not opposed to considering a tax increase either, but I wont take that any further right now since I know most people are against that idea.

Its hard to make any real judgements without numbers in front of me (and its late and Im too tired to spend time researching) but one thing that always strikes me is how little attention is payed to obesity. Of course the governments have been making attempts to get more and more people to stop smoking, in part because of health care costs, which is a good idea and I dont think anyone can argue against that. But with obesity becoming a serious issue in this country, and no doubt allready putting strain on our healthcare system, why is it not being addressed more seriously? And what about the effects of pollution on peoples health? I know studies on this issue are not common and its hard to say conclusively, but it would only be logical that increased air, land and water pollution have not been great for our health.

And while it might be a totally crazy notion and maybe someone has proven me wrong, but I would think it would make more sense to invest in preventing people from becoming unhealthy (in the case of obesity this is one in particular that a lot could be done to achieve significant results) than trying to just to shell out more money for a sicker and sicker society.

Just a thought to ponder. If the government invested $1 billion dollars in making bike paths available to most every major town and city across the country and creating an extensive network of trails so people would have a place to enjoy going out for a few hours, what would the health benefits be to the society as a whole? 1 billion may sound like a lot just for bike paths, but if you put this infrastructure in place, is it possible that it could increase the health of people enough to actually become a logical investment?

My own personal view is that while the healthcare system is not perfect, Im also really against the idea of privatization becoming part of the mix. Profit is fine in most sectors of society, but when it comes to those few areas that are part of the public good (education, water, healthcare, etc) its really going down, what I think, is a dangerous slope. Even if it works, and it does in many places, there is also the possible consequence of creating a class stratification between two segments of society. Maybe this unavoidable in an industrialized country and we are allready headed towards this kind of society, in which case privatization while happen sooner or later. But so long as I still naively believe that Canada is a society that is striving not to follow this route, I still cant agree with falling into a two-tier model.
 
I have no problem with the public system theoretically and I would welcome the concept of being able to retain a universal one-tiered system so that privatization is unnecessary. My fear is that we are too wrapped up in our own mythology to recognize the areas where the system is failing us. But my greater fear is for the other services and investments crutial to our future that healthcare will displace as it goobles up more and more revenue. On the one hand the argument can be made that investing in healthy people makes a healthy society. This is true, but western health philosophy is reactionary not preventative, so I would also argue that much of the spending does not benefit the future prosperity of the country. My concern is how do we make the country better in the future and I cannot see how tax hikes to improve the health of people today through medical care makes much of a positive contribution to the future prosperity of the country. Keep in mind that many of those programs, like transit, the environment, social programs, job creation that stand to loose as medical care costs increase, are the very things that keep more healthy and happy in the first place.
 
Countries with properly functioning health care systems do not have citizens asking their Supreme Courts to grant them a right to timely access to health services. You have to be extremely ignorant to not notice that health care in Canada is being rationed. As our population gets older this rationing will only get worse until we reach a breaking point, which is when we'll finally wake up to start implementing the solutions that have already been demonstrated in other countries such as France, Switzerland, etc.
 
^
1. A "two tier" system allows only those who can pay to use a private system or services. Just examine the costs of private health insurance (and the restrictions) and you will know that many middle class families could not afford much coverage.

2. The argument that somehow a private parallel healthcare system would "free up" space in the public system is incorrect as many doctors, nurses and other healthcare professionals would migrate over to the private system. This would reduce the numbers in the public system. There already is a shortage of healthcare professionals in Canada, a parallel private system would not improve this situation.

3. Comparing Canada to France or Switzerland is not useful; Canada is not France or Switzerland. Our system is structured quite differently.
 
well said bizorky.

blix:

You have to be extremely ignorant to not notice that health care in Canada is being rationed.

the grass is not greener on the state side. private insurance companies are more commie than you think. you're only allowed certain services and you have restrictions.

if you want the best healthcare in the world, you're gonna have to pay with cash and not too many people can do that when it counts.
 

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