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Canada inches toward private medicine

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Canada inches toward private medicine

The court granted a year's reprieve Thursday on its decision striking down a ban on private insurance.

By Rebecca Cook Dube | Contributor to The Christian Science Monitor

TORONTO – Canadians have long prized their public healthcare system as a reflection of national values, and have looked askance at the inequities of private medical care in the United States.
But now that the Canadian Supreme Court has ruled private health insurers should be allowed to compete with the public system, the future of Canadian healthcare is a question mark.

In the short term, the decision may light a fire under provincial governments to improve chronic problems, especially long wait times for surgeries, tests, and treatments. Some experts believe the ruling could eventually spawn a parallel, private healthcare system here.

"For our government, it's a very strong indictment of the way they've handled the system," says Dr. Albert Schumacher, president of the Canadian Medical Association. "I hope it will move us forward in the debate. 'Private' has always been used by politicians as a very evil word, associated with America and for-profit. But it's not necessarily so."

It all started with a disgruntled doctor, Dr. Jacques Chaoulli, and his patient, George Zeliotis, a retired salesman from Quebec who waited nearly a year for a hip replacement.

In a split decision, the Supreme Court in June found that waiting lists for medical treatments were unacceptably long, causing some patients to suffer or die. The judges struck down a Quebec law banning private health insurance for procedures covered by Medicare. Patients like Mr. Zeliotis should be allowed to go outside the public system and pay for timely medical treatments through private insurance, the court said.

"There are tens of thousands of Mr. Zeliotis out there languishing on waiting lists," Dr. Schumacher says. His patients, for example, go to nearby Detroit and pay out-of-pocket to get CAT scans in six days instead of waiting six months in Canada.

By the end of this year, the federal government has promised to establish benchmarks for "medically acceptable wait times" for treatment of cancer, heart disease, and other ailments. The government is already spending billions to try to reduce waiting lists.

Technically, the court ruling applies only to Quebec, and the court on Thursday granted the government's request to delay its decision for a year. But Chaoulli v. Quebec will eventually ripple through the entire country.

"No minister of health can say, 'We're going to deny you a right that exists in the province of Quebec,' " Monahan says. "As a matter of political reality, it's applicable in all provinces."

The man who sparked this revolution was often dismissed as a gadfly during the years he spent fighting the system. Dr.

Chaoulli once went on a hunger strike to protest fines levied on him for charging fees. Chaoulli represented himself in court, and his rough yet impassioned arguments struck home with the court.

"I am so happy," Chaoulli says. "Sooner or later, the medical monopoly will be stopped."

He predicts the emergence of a private healthcare system existing alongside the public one, as in Australia or New Zealand. Meanwhile, he is busy lecturing conservative US groups about the dangers of socialized medicine.

"Libertarians and conservatives do regard him as a hero," says Michael Cannon, director of health policy studies at the Cato Institute in Washington, a libertarian think tank. "He's going to be a very influential figure moving forward in Canada, in the US, and abroad."

Cannon hopes Chaoulli's victory dampens the ardor for Canadian-style healthcare in the US.

For many Canadians, private healthcare wears the scarlet A - for America.

"There is no political support for American-style healthcare," says Michael McBane, coordinator of the Canadian Health Coalition, a healthcare advocacy group. He says he hopes provinces will toughen laws to prevent private insurers from entering the market.

Allowing people to buy private health insurance violates fundamental rights, McBane says, because not everyone will be able to afford it.

"You can't discriminate based on the size of your wallet on something as important as healthcare," McBane says. "I would say this is an aberration and the democratic process will correct it."

The public appears ambivalent about the ruling. A new poll conducted for the Canadian Medical Association finds that 52 percent of Canadians view the decision "favorably," and even more said it will reduce wait times. But when asked if the ruling would weaken the public system, 54 percent agreed, saying it was "a bad thing."

Allyson Lange, a federal government employee, says she would support a parallel, private health system but doesn't expect dramatic changes.

"There would be too much opposition," Ms. Lange says. "We see a lot of what goes on in the US - people go broke because they have a health issue."
 
Canada inches toward private medicine

very misleading title. it's sounds like they're talking about private prescription plan coverage.

i will copy and paste a debate i was having on this topic a few days ago with someone else.
 
the argument for a two tier health care system is flawed. wait times in american hospitals aren't really that much better.

if someone has the money to afford private healthcare, they can afford to use the private healthcare system in the U.S if they want.

also, what most people in ontario don't realise is that a private underground healthcare system does exist and does not need to be supported by the government. this is the group that is pushing for a two tier system so they can be legit and attract more business. this underground network mostly consists of medical imaging. the fact that it is underground keeps the price low because these services are advertised through word of mouth.

a two teir system will only benefit business, it won't help the rich or the poor.

what we need is more money pumped into our NDP created healthcare system, instead of allowing a two tier system. we need great healthcare for all, not for those that can afford it. people that can afford it can also afford using the america system.

we can thank mike harris for shutting down 11 toronto hospitals. i'm sure when he did that, his buddies in the private healthcare front were very happy. ever wonder why the government takes certain actions?

just to let you know where i am comming from, the healthcare system hasn't been there for me either when i needed or neither for family members. sometimes i wished in times of suffering that we had an american system but i quickly realised that if i had the money to pay for it,
i would have had the money to get it done in the states.


we are already paying taxes for a public system, we should focus on fixing that rather than creating a new system.

what we can do in the meantime to help improve the system is to get people with minor problems out of the emergency dept. everytime i go to the hospital, 90% of the people in the emergency don't need to be there.

the emergency dept should be split into two sections - serious & not serious. there should be something setup similar to a walk in clinic right next to the emergency to ease wait times.


this is a huge issue.

remember, it's shit for a reason - POLITICS & private intrests. don't get inline with their agenda.



they want us to demand private healthcare just like americans in the U.S demand security, no matter at what cost.

if i could afford private healthcare, i'd go to the states. how is canadian private healthcare supposed to help more people? most of the people that need it can't afford it and most people in that situation can't get insurance coverage due to their conditions.

all we need is more funding. 11 hospitals were closed in toronto. once you take something away, it's hard to get back.

tommy douglas & paul martin sr. created a great system but too much private intrests messed it up.
 
Grass is greener on the other side is the problem here.

Canadian's want private health care. American's want Canadian style health care. I know my family in the USA is sick of it. They think we have made here in Canada.

Hell, my cousin in Detroit almost had to pay the medical bill for her mother, because her mother was visiting people in the west end of the city, and got sick and went to the closest hospital. And the insurance company did not want to pay the bill because she was suppose to go to the hospital near her house up in the northern part of the city.

So if Canadian's want stupid arguments like that, etc. Go ahead and get your private healthcare.
 
I am actually all in favour of experimenting with private delivery of healthcare in this country. The first myth we need to eliminate is that Canada has the best health care in the world. The second myth is that experimenting with private healthcare means a US style scenerio. There is absolutely no reason that private delivery will degrade the system so long as we make it a priority to improve the public system which most people will use regardless. Is the current system disfunctional and broken? No not really, but it certainly is unsustainable and could stand to self-examine itself based on comparison with peer nations that havw working private and public systems. Everyone can agree that the US scenerio is not one to dublicate, not because their private healthcare system is bad, but because their public system spends more than any country in the world per capita without offering a better level of care.
 
In every other country that has private and public health care, the public one is kept for the poor.

Italy has private and public. And everyone still buy private insurance and does not use the public system unless they need to.

Same in Australia, France, etc.

Canada has a good thing going. People just need to remember how to use it right, and also maybe we need surcharges. When my parents first moved to Canada in the 70's, you had to pay a $5.00 surcharge or something if you went to the ER, if your family made over a certain income or something like that. It was little surcharges to make sure you do not abuse the system.

After they got rid of the little fees, thats when it started to go downhill.
People go to the ER for a paper cut. My dad has seen it.
Thats a waste of money.
 
"but it certainly is unsustainable"

I disagree. We don't spend as much as many countries. Beyond that, I believe that primary care reform has demonstrated that it can produce better outcomes while saving money.

I have to agree with what others have said in this thread. We already have a private system. It's called America. Feel free to go there for treatment, if you can afford it.
 
No tayser, some very poor people can't afford ten dollars a week. In fact, some will avoid getting medical help because of such costs - even monor costs. Add to that, once a user fee is put in place, it can always go up.

Miketoronto: sure there are dual systems in other countries, but you know nothing of their management. This issue is compounded by the fact that health care in Canada is a provincial issue with considerable cross-over with the federal government. If the public system is to be for "poor" people only, are you suggesting that everyone else who is not "poor" pay for health services? What would be the cut-off point for access? Would you support a health care system for the "poor" that would be as responsive as a private system? Is money to be the only determining factor for health care?

Comparing management systems is difficult, at best. Maybe you have noticed that Canada is always only being compared to the United States. There is a great emphasis in the press on how the Canadian health care system is failing, and little in the way of its many positive impacts. For example, with respect to economics the single biggest cause for personal bankruptcy in the United States is related to health care costs. That is one of the reasons that public health care was introduced to Canada. How quickly we forget! Also, just because an individual may have private insurance does not mean they will have access to all possible medical procedures; private plans can be quite restrictive. Costly treatment for major illnesses can also cost you your private insurance plan as private insurers are not required to keep selling you insurance. Public medicare can provide you with reasonable medical services so long as you are alive.
 
you can't afford $10 a week?!?!?

tell me, how does someone dieing from cancer, aids, etc, get this kind of coverage?

i never knew insurance companies have such hearts. they're willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to help people that may only give them a few years of premiums?
 
Actually that is true in the USA. Just because it is private does not mean you get all the coverage and services you want.

Our family friend for example who lives in the USA and has diabetes. He can't get health insurance, because no one will insure him because he has a pre-existing problem. So he has to watch out that nothing happens to him.

So its not like you get everything with either system. There are restrictions.
 
The fact that U.S. medical coverage is private and for profit guarantees that many people will get no coverage and no service at all, I would imagine. My partner was diabetic, and for a number of years was on peritoneal dialysis which he did at home several times a day. Baxter Medical delivered medical supplies to him at our home and all was covered by the Provincial health plan.
 
dan e 1980:
the argument for a two tier health care system is flawed. wait times in american hospitals aren't really that much better.
Any evidence for that?


a two teir system will only benefit business, it won't help the rich or the poor.
I'm sure it would help those who could afford it to get faster care.


the emergency dept should be split into two sections - serious & not serious.
It usually is.


miketoronto:
American's want Canadian style health care.
Are you sure?


In every other country that has private and public health care, the public one is kept for the poor.
Uh, many 'non-poor' people use public systems in other countries.


People just need to remember how to use it right, and also maybe we need surcharges.
I don't think that's a bad idea... there should be some degree of cost to the patient for services received in a hospital. I think you should pay a portion of the cost of your hospital stay provided you can afford it.


afransen:
I have to agree with what others have said in this thread. We already have a private system. It's called America. Feel free to go there for treatment, if you can afford it.
I don't think it's acceptable to force people to travel to another country because the system is inadequate here... and at times it is inadequate.
 
With regards to "unsustainable", I guess I was refering to the level of health care spending increases per year (something like more than twice the countries' economic growth rate). Every year we are focusing more and more of our wealth on health care, this is not indicative of a sustainable system.

Also, with reference to people seeking healthcare outside canada. I wonder if statistics have ever been published? Anecdotally I can say that a significant number of people I personally know of with life threatening ailments have left Canada for treatment. This includes people who I would say are below middle-class. None saught treatment in the US (places like germany, asia etc.).

The argument against the move towards a dual public and private system is too filled with slippery slope arguments. I recall hearing that in Britain something like 80 percent of people continue to use the public system exculsively. In places like Norway private health care is allowed only for a list of specific medical problems (example: if you have a heart attack you use the public system, but for hip replacement you have a choice).

I'm no advocate of full privatization and believe that however the system is crafted the public system should remain the choice of the majourity of the population, but I think allowing private delivery of a specific list of medical procedures is the way to go. I do not envision general care private hospitals, I'm thinking more like private hip surgery medical clinics.
 
But what exactly is the benefit of private delivery of services? So far, all I've read and heard is for a list of relatively simple ailments that lends well to "mass processing" that has attracted private interests in settings with extensive public support. Shouldn't the issue in this case be focusing on exactly what makes that system efficient and apply it to our public care model instead of a copycat approach?

GB
 

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