Caledon-Vaughan GO Rail Line

[innsertnamehere]

I could See GO implementing a peak hour service on the line, similar to Milton, at some point. Likely running to Bolton only at first.

The line has potential for several new stations closer to downtown than just Bolton, including Finch & Weston, Islington & Steeles, old Woodbridge / Highway 7, Kleinburg, and maybe 2 stations in Bolton (north and south).

 

[Northern Light]

I could See GO implementing a peak hour service on the line, similar to Milton, at some point. Likely running to Bolton only at first.

The line has potential for several new stations closer to downtown than just Bolton, including Finch & Weston, Islington & Steeles, old Woodbridge / Highway 7, Kleinburg, and maybe 2 stations in Bolton (north and south).

I really do think, before we add service to any great extent on this line, we need to finish or substantially progress on delivering 2-way, all-day service, of at least the 30-minute level to the entire urban GO network, with the possible exception of the Richmond Hill line which I view as less consequential.

In addition, we should really finish delivery of 15-minute, 2WAD service on the Lakeshore Line, with the the completed extensions to Hamilton and Bomanville.

As work to upgrade Milton has yet to begin; and there are myriad projects that need to be delivered to achieve the above, I think Bolton, as serious discussion can wait.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Those projects are already well underway.

This would likely involve minimal investment at first as well - just a few simple stations. Provided of course that CP gives GO track time on the corridor, they wouldn't need extensive track work.

I agree that Milton 2WAD is important as well, but it's going to be a very expensive project as it requires the construction of two dedicated tracks.

 

[tsm1072]

With how the land spans Humber Station road, it looks like it is enough for a layover yard to the North, and a station beside the new residential development.

Funding this line could end up being a good PR move for the government. With the vocal opposition to the new highway, this line can help boost the value of local developments, while being a PR win for the government in the eyes of the public. Based on the previous study, infrastructure costs would be ~$200million. Call it $500million today, commit another $500million to road upgrades in the region and you may have just reached a compromise.

 

[afransen]

I really do think, before we add service to any great extent on this line, we need to finish or substantially progress on delivering 2-way, all-day service, of at least the 30-minute level to the entire urban GO network, with the possible exception of the Richmond Hill line which I view as less consequential.

In addition, we should really finish delivery of 15-minute, 2WAD service on the Lakeshore Line, with the the completed extensions to Hamilton and Bomanville.

As work to upgrade Milton has yet to begin; and there are myriad projects that need to be delivered to achieve the above, I think Bolton, as serious discussion can wait.

Are they mutually exclusive?

 

[crs1026]

@smallspy @crs1026 @AHK

Any thoughts on why Canada has not been in regulatory sync w/the Americans on PTC, given a shared railway network?

Presumably, CN and CP, both playing in the U.S. will have to have rolling stock entirely PTC capable in the not too distant future; have their U.S. networks set up for compliance.

From their perspective does it make sense to have that, and then have their trains cross back into Canada and operate under a previous generation of tech?

Why did we lag? Canada did not have a series of high impact fatality-causing incidents. The US did. Congress imposed PTC as a knee jerk, the US railways were not enthusiastic.

PTC is the cautionary tale that I point to when people mention hydrail, or battery trains. PTC was not ready for prime time and was rolled out very broadly before the bugs were worked out. The railroads kept coming back asking for more time.The US railroads have spent billions on it and it's only just getting to reliable operation. A longer test and redesign timeframe was required.

Canada's railways have sat back and learned from the whole experience, fortunately without any adverse incidents in the meanwhile. A great many CN and CP locomotives are PTC equipped, as they regularly cycle into the US. So we are further along than it may appear, but the investment in the plant isn't under way as yet.

- Paul

 

[yyzhyd]

I really do think, before we add service to any great extent on this line, we need to finish or substantially progress on delivering 2-way, all-day service, of at least the 30-minute level to the entire urban GO network, with the possible exception of the Richmond Hill line which I view as less consequential.

In addition, we should really finish delivery of 15-minute, 2WAD service on the Lakeshore Line, with the the completed extensions to Hamilton and Bomanville.

As work to upgrade Milton has yet to begin; and there are myriad projects that need to be delivered to achieve the above, I think Bolton, as serious discussion can wait.

Completely agree, even though it would greatly improve my life if there was GO station in Kleinburg!

 

[robmausser]

Why did we lag? Canada did not have a series of high impact fatality-causing incidents. The US did. Congress imposed PTC as a knee jerk, the US railways were not enthusiastic.

PTC is the cautionary tale that I point to when people mention hydrail, or battery trains. PTC was not ready for prime time and was rolled out very broadly before the bugs were worked out. The railroads kept coming back asking for more time.The US railroads have spent billions on it and it's only just getting to reliable operation. A longer test and redesign timeframe was required.

Canada's railways have sat back and learned from the whole experience, fortunately without any adverse incidents in the meanwhile. A great many CN and CP locomotives are PTC equipped, as they regularly cycle into the US. So we are further along than it may appear, but the investment in the plant isn't under way as yet.

- Paul

Whats the status of GO and using PTC on the RER sections of their track?

If they arent implementing it initially, that will be interesting because once they eventually do, we will see schedules and headways increase even more using the existing track infrastructure.

 

[44 North]

I supporting bringing rail up that way for no other reason than the sizable gap in the GO rail network. Similar to south central Durham. You have people but the rail is so far away. Granted I may be more supportive of bringing rail to northern Brampton/beyond using the rail line north of Brampton GO (sry don't know the name of it). Feel like it provides greater coverage with higher densities more immediate to the line.

Just a rough overlay in case some aren't aware of the gaps between Kitchener-Barrie lines (and Stouff-LSE for that matter). They're sizable.

 

[KhalilHeron]

I supporting bringing rail up that way for no other reason than the sizable gap in the GO rail network. Similar to south central Durham. You have people but the rail is so far away. Granted I may be more supportive of bringing rail to northern Brampton/beyond using the rail line north of Brampton GO (sry don't know the name of it). Feel like it provides greater coverage with higher densities more immediate to the line.

Just a rough overlay in case some aren't aware of the gaps between Kitchener-Barrie lines (and Stouff-LSE for that matter). They're sizable.

View attachment 305002

If you mean the CN railway I made a quick concept of what this could look like in google earth a while back. As you can see it serves that gap in rail service pretty well, but of course has the downside of not connecting downtown. I can't remember why I didn't make it have an interchange with Barrie though probably just forgot tbh

 

[afransen]

If you mean the CN railway I made a quick concept of what this could look like in google earth a while back. As you can see it serves that gap in rail service pretty well, but of course has the downside of not connecting downtown. I can't remember why I didn't make it have an interchange with Barrie though probably just forgot tbh
View attachment 305027

Honestly, we need better circumferential transit in the GTA. If we want to reduce car commuting, it can't be all about shuttling people downtown. If we're feeling very ambitious, we could take a spur off the Mactier sub and use it to provide connectivity for northern Brampton/Caledon while it is still a greenfield. I know, I know. Toronto believes rail lines can only either be re-using disused freight corridors, bogged down in the middle of the street behind left turning cars, or $1B/km underground subway lines. The idea of a new ROW for surface rail transit is not invented here, and thus impossible. Often freight corridors aren't located in places supportive of TOD, such as protected employment zones.

 

[Undead]

The idea of a new ROW for surface rail transit is not invented here, and thus impossible

I doubt we can wrangle that through built up areas.

 

[44 North]

If you mean the CN railway I made a quick concept of what this could look like in google earth a while back. As you can see it serves that gap in rail service pretty well, but of course has the downside of not connecting downtown. I can't remember why I didn't make it have an interchange with Barrie though probably just forgot tbh

No sry meant the ORBY - Orangeville Brampton Rwy. There's thread on it here.

 

[KhalilHeron]

No sry meant the ORBY - Orangeville Brampton Rwy. There's thread on it here.

ohh gotya

 

[afransen]

I doubt we can wrangle that through built up areas.

I am referring to the swath of land north of the built up area of Brampton/Caledon, south of Bolton. A bit south of the proposed 413 corridor.

I know, I know. Not invented here. Let's just build a highway instead.