Caledon-Vaughan GO Rail Line

[Northern Light]

The proposed GO Station for Bolton would go here, at the north-west edge of town:

The Red Marker indicates the intersection identified in the press release. Clearly the station would abut the tracks.

While useful for parking, I would have liked to see a station that would be more easily served by high quality transit, perhaps at Highway 50.

 

[Northern Light]

I dug up the old feasibility study for the Bolton Service:

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regionalplanning/projectevaluation/studies/Bolton_Commuter_Rail_Feasibility_Study_2010_EN.pdf

 

[Towered]

Where does this line go to beyond Bolton?

 

[mdu]

Where does this line go to beyond Bolton?

The good ol Ontario Railway Map appears again! The MacTier sub goes through Tottenham, Alliston (and a few smaller settlements), and continues around the northwest corner of Barrie, off into the wilderness of cottage country.

 

[crs1026]

Where does this line go to beyond Bolton?

Vancouver.

OK, less flippantly - north of the GTA it passes through Alliston, and then skirts Barrie and Orillia by enough that it isn’t really helpful to connecting those communities to a regional transit network.

So far, there isn’t population density north of Bolton along tnis particular rail line that would justify a rail service. But if Doug Ford wants to legitimise sprawl, there’s no better place to sell out greenbelt and farming. So I don’t discount putting GO on this line, but likely decades from now.

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

Vancouver.

OK, less flippantly - north of the GTA it passes through Alliston, and then skirts Barrie and Orillia by enough that it isn’t really helpful to connecting those communities to a regional transit network.

So far, there isn’t population density north of Bolton along tnis particular rail line that would justify a rail service. But if Doug Ford wants to legitimise sprawl, there’s no better place to sell out greenbelt and farming. So I don’t discount putting GO on this line, but likely decades from now.

- Paul

I'm inclined to agree.

Unless, there a desire to create a short, inter-lined service with GO KW at some point, that branches off, but stays entirely within the already urbanized area.

Given the removal of Etobicoke North, there could be a case for a station where MacTier crosses Wilson, as a replacement, its still almost 7km to Wilson Station there, and a fair distance the other way to the race track.

As one goes further north, there is some risk of duplicating the TYSSE as distances vary from as low as 4km to just over 5km between Sheppard and Steeles. At Hwy 7 you're back up to about 5.4km separation.

At any rate, the cost of the additional infrastructure along the route may be sufficiently prohibitive to negate any value.

****

Of course, if we're going to put an end to the explosive growth in Bolton, to mitigate the risk of sprawl and new highways and railways, we (Ontario) will need to full enclose Bolton with the Greenbelt, for a considerable distance around it.

 

[Garuda]

There’s no way CP will allow for service on their mainline to the west. I’m all for the line but CP will quash this.

that said, I’m glad Caledon is protecting the land now.

 

[crs1026]

There’s no way CP will allow for service on their mainline to the west. I’m all for the line but CP will quash this.

that said, I’m glad Caledon is protecting the land now.

I’m more confident that CP might allow service but only if GO spent gobs of money to twin the line, which is single track north of about Finch Ave. Certainly, freight access to CP’s intermodal yard would have to be protected.
The scope of that added track is probably far more than the Business Case could justify, given the limited potential ridership.
The original study suggested CP would also want its line resignalled north of Bolton. Currently that section is mostly non-CTC... I’m sure CP would still be happy to see that done at GO’s expense.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

^ Interesting. I had just assumed that because this was a CP mainline it would be CTC all the way to Sudbury.

 

[Northern Light]

I’m more confident that CP might allow service but only if GO spent gobs of money to twin the line, which is single track north of about Finch Ave. Certainly, freight access to CP’s intermodal yard would have to be protected.
The scope of that added track is probably far more than the Business Case could justify, given the limited potential ridership.
The original study suggested CP would also want its line resignalled north of Bolton. Currently that section is mostly non-CTC... I’m sure CP would still be happy to see that done at GO’s expense.

- Paul

^ Interesting. I had just assumed that because this was a CP mainline it would be CTC all the way to Sudbury.

Colour me shocked that there is true mainline that isn't fully signaled (in the modern sense).

The U.S. is mandating PTC and we don't even have CTC on mainline track?

WTF.

For those not in the know:

PTC: is Positive Train Control
CTC is Centralized Traffic Control

That last acronym I feel confident everyone can decipher!

 

[AHK]

Colour me shocked that there is true mainline that isn't fully signaled (in the modern sense).

The U.S. is mandating PTC and we don't even have CTC on mainline track?

WTF.

For those not in the know:

PTC: is Positive Train Control
CTC is Centralized Traffic Control

That last acronym I feel confident everyone can decipher!

Not unusual, and should not be a surprise. The CP mainline in eastern Ontario also currently lacks CTC. The stretch from Smiths Falls Ontario to Dalhousie Quebec had long been double track. One track has just been lifted, and in conjunction, CTC implemented to facilitate all traffic, both directions, operating on a single track mainline.

The lifted rail is being redeployed to upgrade the recently acquired Central Main and Quebec (CMQ) rail to modern standards.

From the CP Rail web site today (March 9): https://www.cpr.ca/en/community/rail-projects-near-you

Learn more about the latest projects that may be visible in your neighbourhood below.​

• British Columbia
• Alberta
• Saskatchewan
• Ontario
• Quebec

Ontario​

Smiths Falls, ON to Saint-Télesphore, QC – Signalization​

CP will be installing a centralized traffic control (CTC) signal system, including new signal masts, signal housing, power switch equipment and switch heaters along the tracks between Smiths Falls, ON and Saint-Télesphore, QC.
The signal masts look like traffic lights. Construction will continue to December 15, 2020.

Winchester subdivision – Track removal​

From June 15 to December 15, 2020 CP will be removing sections of the north track between Smiths Falls, ON and Dalhousie, QC. Sections of track will remain as sidings, allowing for efficient train movement through the region. The work will start near Smiths Falls, ON and proceed eastward, however we will need to return to segments multiple times over the course of the project. The majority of the work will take place Monday to Friday between 5:00am and 5:00pm, although some weekend work is expected.
Some rail and other materials will be re-used. Rail and ties are not for sale and we do not give them away.

 

[crs1026]

^The Bolton line is signalled, with ABS (Automatic Block Signalling) - this is a very old technology which works quite well at ensuring track integrity and keeping trains separated, but does not contain any element of control of movements. Trains operate under a system of rules called OCS - Occupancy Control System - under which authority to proceed is given verbally to each train by the RTC. The RTC works through a computer-based application which double checks the RTC’s work.
CP’s Galt-Windsor Subs also are ABS-OCS west of Campbellville.
If this sounds primitive, just remember that until not that many years ago GO lines to Stouffville, Barrie and Guelph and the much debated Northlander service all ran under OCS with little or no signalling. OCS-ABS isn’t bad, it works but is not efficient especially as the volume of trains being handled rises.
Why aren’t the lines kept up to date? Given a choice of investing in newer technology to replace something that still works adequately (by a very loose standard), versus paying dividends....

- Paul

 

[rbt]

Colour me shocked that there is true mainline that isn't fully signaled (in the modern sense).

The U.S. is mandating PTC and we don't even have CTC on mainline track?

WTF.

For those not in the know:

PTC: is Positive Train Control
CTC is Centralized Traffic Control

That last acronym I feel confident everyone can decipher!

Where's The Freight? (Because of lack of CTC)

 

[smallspy]

There’s no way CP will allow for service on their mainline to the west. I’m all for the line but CP will quash this.

that said, I’m glad Caledon is protecting the land now.

CP has been involved in discussions and studies with GO about this line since the late-1980s.

Provided that the necessary improvements are made and funded by GO, they have no concerns about the operation.

Dan

 

[Northern Light]

@smallspy @crs1026 @AHK

Any thoughts on why Canada has not been in regulatory sync w/the Americans on PTC, given a shared railway network?

Presumably, CN and CP, both playing in the U.S. will have to have rolling stock entirely PTC capable in the not too distant future; have their U.S. networks set up for compliance.

From their perspective does it make sense to have that, and then have their trains cross back into Canada and operate under a previous generation of tech?