Buenos Aires - Cliché Bitching About Toronto Thread

[mrgrieves]

It seems to be a fact that overhead wires are aesthetically displeasing. There does not seem to be much to discuss there. It's just a question of whether the city will spend the extra money to bury them. There is also the added bonus that underground wires are protected from adverse weather or a fallen tree.

The 1998 Ice Storm in southern Quebec and eastern Ontario saw thousands of trees fall down from the weight of ice, often on to power lines which were brought down as well. Power was lost in many parts of Montreal for 2-3 weeks. I think after that event there was heightened awareness on the importance of burying power lines in Quebec.

"Montreal has 7,269 kilometres of distribution lines, of which more than 4,000 kilometres, or about 55 percent of the system, is underground." http://ottawa.openfile.ca/ottawa/file/2011/07/ottawa-power-lines-seldom-buried

 

[jn_12]

It seems to be a fact that overhead wires are aesthetically displeasing. There does not seem to be much to discuss there.

Where is this fact stated? You could make an equally accurate argument that power lines are esthetically pleasing. It's entirely subjective.

 

[mrgrieves]

I understand that "beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder" - however I really don't hear of many people describing Toronto's streets and overhead wires as beautiful. You might be the exception.

I think one of the purposes of this thread was to discuss how Toronto's streetscape can be improved. Some people on this board have seen what a beautiful city (ex: Buenos Aires) can look like and feel strongly that it improves overall quality of life. They want to see Toronto take the steps necessary to become more attractive. If you think hanging overhead wires and planting wooden poles with transformers all over a city makes it more attractive, then so be it

 

[Register123]

Well if it wasn't fact , I wonder why in every single rendering of a new project the artist seemingly forgets to draw in these most attractive features of our cityscape. Ummm?

 

[Celestica]

In a city where the car takes precedence over the pedestrian, and cracked concrete sidewalks line our downtown streets, why abhor an abundance of wooden telephone poles? Although these poles are seen by many as indicative of Toronto's decrepit, antiquated infrastructure, others chose to view them as an integral part of our urban fabric - symbolic of our very image. Jason McBride romanticizes them quite nicely in uTOpia: Towards a New Toronto.

Wooden telephone poles punctured by thousands of staples - the trace of countless homemade messages - are totems in a city that has not institutionalized every human interchange. These same telephone poles hold aloft a tangle of wires that form a patterned ceiling above the street, itself cluttered with mismatched furniture. Everything tells us that Toronto is a bricolage of atomized privacies, that we have few obligations to it and, equally, little guidance from it.

 

[wopchop]

If we buried all of our overhead wires, people would be bitching about the fact that Toronto Hydro would be digging up the streets and sidewalks even more than they already do.

 

[Hipster Duck]

^That shouldn't be an excuse for inaction. Toronto digs up its streets more than almost any other city already, exposed hydro wires or not. All of the other cities I've ever lived in - all of which had far more extensive hydro burying than Toronto - dug up their streets far less.

 

[Celestica]

^That shouldn't be an excuse for inaction. Toronto digs up its streets more than almost any other city already, exposed hydro wires or not. All of the other cities I've ever lived in - all of which had far more extensive hydro burying than Toronto - dug up their streets far less.

Yes, that might be true about other cities, but public works projects move at a snail's pace in Toronto. Do I even need to bring up the St. Clair streetcar project?

 

[wopchop]

^That shouldn't be an excuse for inaction. Toronto digs up its streets more than almost any other city already, exposed hydro wires or not. All of the other cities I've ever lived in - all of which had far more extensive hydro burying than Toronto - dug up their streets far less.

Not making an excuse, just making a point. That's exactly what would happen.

 

[MisterF]

If overhead wires shouldn't be buried because their looks are subjective, then why spend anything on aesthetics? In the spirit of stopping the gravy train, let's go all out! Let's stop all street tree planting. No more streetscaping projects - just pave all the sidewalks with asphalt. Fire urban design staff. And forget about spending money on the arts! After all, all of that is subjective.

 

[Register123]

Well , it is nearly winter, fall has come and nearly passed, and the water fountains on University still langish in disrepair (I believe a UT memeber posted something earlier this year about contacting city hall and was told it would be done this fall). If our city can't repair a measly little fountain , regardless of how rare the original stone to repair it is, how can anyone in their right mind have the confidence that this city will be able to host the PanAm games. This fountain has been broken for nearly 3years now for Christ's sake!

 

[taal]

Well , it is nearly winter, fall has come and nearly passed, and the water fountains on University still langish in disrepair (I believe a UT memeber posted something earlier this year about contacting city hall and was told it would be done this fall). If our city can't repair a measly little fountain , regardless of how rare the original stone to repair it is, how can anyone in their right mind have the confidence that this city will be able to host the PanAm games. This fountain has been broken for nearly 3years now for Christ's sake!

Yea this makes me so mad ... I wish someone could get an update. The star reported they would be fixed in the fall as well.

 

[jn_12]

If overhead wires shouldn't be buried because their looks are subjective, then why spend anything on aesthetics? In the spirit of stopping the gravy train, let's go all out! Let's stop all street tree planting. No more streetscaping projects - just pave all the sidewalks with asphalt. Fire urban design staff. And forget about spending money on the arts! After all, all of that is subjective.

Never suggested they shouldn't be buried. I suggested that it's not a fact that they are ugly, and also suggested that they aren't a sign of Toronto's lack of respect for public spaces. There's a difference from that and what you suggest.

 

[MisterF]

Never suggested they shouldn't be buried. I suggested that it's not a fact that they are ugly, and also suggested that they aren't a sign of Toronto's lack of respect for public spaces. There's a difference from that and what you suggest.

It was an exaggeration to make a point. Nothing is "fact" when it comes to aesthetics but that doesn't mean we should stop trying to make things look good. The wooden poles are a sign of Toronto's lack of respect for public spaces. They're a symptom of a bigger problem.

 

[jn_12]

It was an exaggeration to make a point. Nothing is "fact" when it comes to aesthetics but that doesn't mean we should stop trying to make things look good. The wooden poles are a sign of Toronto's lack of respect for public spaces. They're a symptom of a bigger problem.

I don't see the wooden poles in that way. I think in some ways they actually help enhance the public space and how we view the city. There's something about seeing a pole that's been papered or stuck with years worth of staples that suggests you're in an urban and lively space. Maybe it's because I'm not originally from Toronto, but I vividly remember my early visits to the city a decade ago and finding that the life attached to these poles contributed to the idea that I was "somewhere".

Don't get me wrong, I think design is incredibly important (The Music Garden is my favourite space in the city and I've long complained about the lack of respect for public spaces when it comes to maintenance of water fountains) but I just don't see street poles as making negative contributions to our city.