Buenos Aires - Cliché Bitching About Toronto Thread

[savevp]

Personally, and I know I am in the minority here, I have no problem with the overhead wires. They are a unique quirk of Toronto and the wooden poles allow for the posting of advertisements which showcase events or independent retailers- you never see big chains advertising on these poles.

Now in my opinion to greatly improve our public realm we need to create small squares or piazzas if you will. At intersections or busy pedestrian areas build smaller squares with a statue or fountain in the middle and cafes/pubs/restaurants around it. Place some gardens and benches and voila! Public Realm!

My two cents...

 

[pman]

Personally, and I know I am in the minority here, I have no problem with the overhead wires. They are a unique quirk of Toronto and the wooden poles allow for the posting of advertisements which showcase events or independent retailers- you never see big chains advertising on these poles.

My two cents...

I agree the preponderance of overhead wires is unique to Toronto, at least if the comparison set is major cities in Europe, the US and Australia. You might be in the majority on this issue - as far as I can tell most Torontonians are indifferent to them and some people actually seem to like them (except for the people who do renderings of new condos, which always show wide sidewalks lined with healthy mature trees and not an overhead wire, rotting wooden pole or mid-air transformer to be seen).

 

[Register123]

^^...and in these "small squares or piazzas" we can put up more wooden poles and string wires to provide electricity to the lights that would eluminate these little public spaces, and great- statues ummm.... more surfaces to plaster ever so more of these quaint posters and advertisments -sounds like paradise to me.

 

[Redroom Studios]

can you say sarcasm? +1

 

[adma]

Overhead wires are to Toronto what laugh tracks are to the Flintstones--yeah, a lot of us are used to them, but hey, if you wanna get rid of them, hey, whatever. (And these days, it's not uncommon to encounter the Flintstones sans laugh tracks.)

 

[mrgrieves]

most Torontonians are indifferent to them and some people actually seem to like them.

The key word there is indifferent. If the people of a city are indifferent to an abundance of visual pollution (overhead wires, wooden poles, transformers), how can the city ever be anything more than mediocre, let alone great?

 

[jn_12]

The key word there is indifferent. If the people of a city are indifferent to an abundance of visual pollution (overhead wires, wooden poles, transformers), how can the city ever be anything more than mediocre, let alone great?

Since when does the presence of overhead wires and peoples' indifference to them have anything to do with the quality of a city? Never heard anyone say, "you know what makes [great city] so great? no overhead wires."

 

[adma]

"You know what makes Toronto a great city? That it's tolerant enough to elect a guy like Rob Ford as mayor."

(Key word: "tolerant".)

 

[pman]

Since when does the presence of overhead wires and peoples' indifference to them have anything to do with the quality of a city? Never heard anyone say, "you know what makes [great city] so great? no overhead wires."

I suppose the ubiquitous presence of overhead wires does say that Torontonians have radically different standards for their public realm than inhabitants of major cities in Europe, the US or Australia.

 

[mrgrieves]

I suppose the ubiquitous presence of overhead wires does say that Torontonians have radically different standards for their public realm than inhabitants of major cities in Europe, the US or Australia.

Don't forget about Canada. Montreal and Vancouver also seem to have much difference standards as well.

It just seems like such a shame. Toronto has so many walkable neighbourhoods throughout the city that are in need of a streetscape makeover

 

[allabootmatt]

I suppose the ubiquitous presence of overhead wires does say that Torontonians have radically different standards for their public realm than inhabitants of major cities in Europe, the US or Australia.

I hate overhead wires as much as (or more than) most, but let's not be TOO hard on ourselves. They aren't unheard of elsewhere. San Francisco has tons, even on heavily touristed streets. In Boston they're widespread outside the downtown. Ditto Sydney and Melbourne. In Europe, you see them frequently on residential streets in smaller cities (Marseille for example).

I think the difference, if anything, is that in Toronto I see very little evidence that the City or Hydro even have any problem with the wires in principle--ie, any interest in moving to burial even where doing so doesn't represent a big financial outlay.

 

[jn_12]

I just don't think the presence of wires ruins the public realm. It seems akin to complaining that windmills ruin our enjoyment of Lake Ontario. It's entirely subjective and in my opinion from my perspective has no impact on the quality of the space, the amount of enjoyment we get out of it or the quality of the city it's situated in.

 

[Hipster Duck]

I don't think it's as subjective as liking a painting or a song. Overhead wires present real problems. For one, they prevent the growth of mature trees on commercial streets, because the branches have to be pruned at a low height to prevent them from tangling up with the wires. This leads a street with wires to have less shade cover in the summertime. Secondly, the wires and poles provide birds with a place to perch and drop shit onto the sidewalk; in Toronto this problem seems to be noticeably worse than in other cities where the wires are buried. Third, I think that wires mar the facade of otherwise nice buildings. This is a subjective point, I will admit, but I think that there might be some correlation with an owner's willingness to keep up the appearance of a facade and the presence of wires and poles in front of the building. Finally, I think wires present a huge obstacle to fire fighting. Fire fighters have to often cut the power to an entire block when they fight a fire on a commercial street with overhead wires. This inconveniences both the fire department (because this is a job they have to do above and beyond fighting the fire) and all of the people with stores and residences on the block. In addition to the fact that overhead wires are constantly being downed in wind and ice storms, and I wonder why there isn't more of a push to bury wires every time a streetscaping project comes up.

 

[Celestica]

There's a lot to hate about Toronto (Regent Park, St. James Town, Lawrence Heights, Rob Ford, poor infrastructure, ugly buildings,) but there's also a whole lot to love...

Nope, I've got nothing.

 

[jn_12]

I don't think it's as subjective as liking a painting or a song. Overhead wires present real problems. For one, they prevent the growth of mature trees on commercial streets, because the branches have to be pruned at a low height to prevent them from tangling up with the wires. This leads a street with wires to have less shade cover in the summertime. Secondly, the wires and poles provide birds with a place to perch and drop shit onto the sidewalk; in Toronto this problem seems to be noticeably worse than in other cities where the wires are buried. Third, I think that wires mar the facade of otherwise nice buildings. This is a subjective point, I will admit, but I think that there might be some correlation with an owner's willingness to keep up the appearance of a facade and the presence of wires and poles in front of the building. Finally, I think wires present a huge obstacle to fire fighting. Fire fighters have to often cut the power to an entire block when they fight a fire on a commercial street with overhead wires. This inconveniences both the fire department (because this is a job they have to do above and beyond fighting the fire) and all of the people with stores and residences on the block. In addition to the fact that overhead wires are constantly being downed in wind and ice storms, and I wonder why there isn't more of a push to bury wires every time a streetscaping project comes up.

Eliminating wires for practical reasons like the ones you outlines makes perfect sense. I have no problem with that argument at all. It's the argument that wires are asthetically displeasing and therefore ruin the public-realm that doesn't make much sense to me.