Black Lives Matter Toronto

[TheKingEast]

Why are you all so angry at Black Lives Matter? Why is it important to you to put them down or tell them/their supporters/their allies how/why/where they should or shouldn't act?

Why do you have that right? Oh yes, privilege.

When You’re Accustomed to Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression.

You have to wonder why people get so upset when a disadvantaged group demands equality. We've seen some pretty terrible stuff posted about blacks in this thread. I think much of the vitriol directed towards BLM is coming from people who believe that racial inequality is justifiable.

I'm actually surprised how some people haven't been banned yet, to be honest. I've seen people banned for much less. I was suspended for a week for calling someone a troll.

So what is the goal here? To have a grown up discussion or just a place where bigots can congregate and regurgitate ignorant trash that I could easily find on stormfront? Why not just go there and vent with your buddies?

 

[Armour]

Abrahamic religions, go figure. Playing the who made who do something first does nothing to solve problems we have today, and survive so there is a future.

That wasn't the reason I posted that meme. It was to demonstrate that the crusades were a response to centuries of muslim aggression towards Christians (something most people don't know; BLMJeff, especially). He is under the assumption that radical Islam is a recent phenomenon. Anyway, back on topic.

Except that wasn't what was being shoved in my face.
You know the story of the little boy who cried wolf once too often?

 

[freshcutgrass]

We've seen some pretty terrible stuff posted about blacks in this thread. I think much of the vitriol directed towards BLM is coming from people who believe that racial inequality is justifiable.

Quoting facts, racist remarks and lies by BLM leaders/sympathizers and pointing out hypocrisy isn't "bigotry", "ignorant trash" or in any way promoting inequality. Provide the evidence for these accusations or retract them. Personal attacks on forum members with false accusations is likely what will get you banned.

Self-identifying as a victim doesn't give you a free pass to be guilty of exactly what you are claiming to be a victim of. It's a two-way street, and those who think it isn't, are the ones promoting inequality.

 

[greenleaf]

And the right to an opinion and to express it is a privilege everyone has. That's what equality is.

I'm sure people think they sound clever by adding that "white privilege" soundbite as a rebuttal, but it is really just a cop out, because the only one preaching double standards is BLM.

BLM is being soundly debunked by hard facts. Of course they don't like it. But they are the ones sticking their foot in their own mouths. This movement is so poorly led and organized, that it will just fizzle out. The vast majority of black people don't even support it fer crying out loud.

Okay. Buuuuuuuuut:

Why are you so angry at Black Lives Matter? Why is it important to you to put them down or tell them/their supporters/their allies how/why/where they should or shouldn't act?


I do not see this movement dying out, to be honest. I, as an ally, will not stop and will not fizzle out.

I'm done with this thread right now though. It's trash.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Okay. Buuuuuuuuut:

Why are you so angry at Black Lives Matter?

"Okay Buuuuuuuuut" nothing.

Before we go anywhere, you need to acknowledge your incorrect application regarding this so-called "white privilege" remark of yours. Accountability seems to be a term that escapes BLM members and their supporters.

If you actually read the posts and still need to ask why I (and I can only speak for myself) am angry at BLM, then point out specifics and I will walk you through it.

 

[JWBF]

That wasn't the reason I posted that meme. It was to demonstrate that the crusades were a response to centuries of muslim aggression towards Christians (something most people don't know; BLMJeff, especially). He is under the assumption that radical Islam is a recent phenomenon. Anyway, back on topic.

Shame you missed my point of who sired who, the wars and slaughters attributed to them, oh well.

Anyway, BLMJeff is appearing more and more to be quite unhinged from reality (as your “meme” was to point out), awash in the holy spirit so to speak, I wonder if we have to worry about a more than just a disruptive demonstration in the future.

 

[salsa]

You have to wonder why people get so upset when a disadvantaged group demands equality. We've seen some pretty terrible stuff posted about blacks in this thread. I think much of the vitriol directed towards BLM is coming from people who believe that racial inequality is justifiable.

I am not oblivious to the racial inequalities afflicting black people, nor do I agree with the bigoted views that certain people have posted in this thread. I do get upset whenever I hear about another needless police murder or some sort of discrimination. Therefore I'm not against the concept that a disadvantage group demands equality, but it doesn't mean that I'm automatically supposed to support this particular group and the way they go about their message. BLM may have started off with the right ideas, but they've turned into a cult that embraces violence against police and white people. How the hell does that contribute actual progress toward equality?

One only has to read literally anything that their spokesperson Jeff has posted here to get an idea as to what's wrong with this group. This guy comes off as unhinged and makes wild statements like "racist Toronto cops are systematically hunting down and murdering innocent black people", stuff that is so exaggerated and out of touch with reality & actual statistics but anyone who dares call out his nonsense gets called a racist. That was just one out of countless other examples. Seriously, just go to his profile and read all of his posts, it's impossible to have a normal conversation. If this is the kind of extreme rhetoric that's representative of BLM, then the movement will ultimately fail to bring about real change. It's time that they replace their leadership and get back on message. Enough with the nonsense already.

 

[Admiral Beez]

One only has to read literally anything that their spokesperson Jeff has posted here to get an idea as to what's wrong with this group. This guy comes off as unhinged and makes wild statements like "racist Toronto cops are systematically hunting down and murdering innocent black people", stuff that is so exaggerated and out of touch

IMO he/she has nothing to do with BLM, but instead has, for whatever reasons, created an UT account solely to provoke and spread confusion and annoyance about the organization. I'd like to think the Mods here have made some effort to confirm her/his association with the group or at least the legitimacy of their postings here.

 

[BlackLivesMatterJeff]

IMO he/she has nothing to do with BLM, but instead has, for whatever reasons, created an UT account solely to provoke and spread confusion and annoyance about the organization. I'd like to think the Mods here have made some effort to confirm her/his association with the group or at least the legitimacy of their postings here.

Sorry if I don't conform to your worldview of what BLM is like. You seem to have a nice and rosy picture of everything but some of us at BLM are more realistic and see the world for what it is. In fact long before BLM was founded I was a member (still am) of Anti-Racist Action and also Antifa that we work with in Europe. I also protest and work for other causes (Environmental, Animal Rights, Human Rights etc) but BLM is ARA's dream come true because for decades we've been trying to get people to stand up against racism only to be ignored but BLM is the realization of our goals from 10-20 years ago because it's a movement that has gained a lot of popularity in such short time and people are starting to wake up.

You can think what you want but that don't change that we are an "in your face" movement that realizes it's pointless and futile to have polite discussions but rather quick and decisive action. You can either stand behind us or against us.

You have to wonder why people get so upset when a disadvantaged group demands equality. We've seen some pretty terrible stuff posted about blacks in this thread. I think much of the vitriol directed towards BLM is coming from people who believe that racial inequality is justifiable.

I'm actually surprised how some people haven't been banned yet, to be honest. I've seen people banned for much less. I was suspended for a week for calling someone a troll.

So what is the goal here? To have a grown up discussion or just a place where bigots can congregate and regurgitate ignorant trash that I could easily find on stormfront? Why not just go there and vent with your buddies?

Totally agree. I don't understand why armour is tolerated. He's posting lies about blacks and Muslims. Classic Trump supporter!

 

[BlackLivesMatterJeff]

I think you need to open some history books. I assume you are referring to the crusades; which were a response to nearly 5 centuries of muslim invasion of Christian lands. Funny how no one ever discusses that.

https://www.instagram.com/p/-Fs_sfKgMW/

And let's not forget about all the Christians being killed by muslims every day. But, yes, according to you (which is all that really matters), Muslims were peaceful until the midway point of the last century...

Nice poster! Did you make it up yourself or get it from Stormfront? Nice way of blaming it all on Muslims!

Except that wasn't what was being shoved in my face.

Greenleaf implied my right to criticize is a privilege not afforded others, which is factually untrue. Especially given the fact the topic is about all the criticism being spouted by BLM. They don't seem to have any problem utilizing this privilege.

BLM has a right to criticize, but needs to back it up or concede they are wrong. When they make wild statements like racist Toronto cops are systematically hunting down and murdering innocent black people, and the only evidence to back that up that they can come up with is Andrew Loku, then they need to dial down the rhetoric and get realistic. But instead, they double down on it.

If you show them hard facts that prove they are wrong...they say that's racist
If you ask them to provide hard facts to back up their accusations...they say that's racist
If you point out remarks/actions of violence and blatant racism by their own leaders/members....they say that's racist
If people have the gall to hold vigils for victims of tragedies not involving blacks killed by whites...they say that's racist.

That's the default answer for everything.

You know the story of the little boy who cried wolf once too often?

It's called implicit and passive racism! Is it any coincidence that every time a black man is gunned down by the police, the racists all of a sudden start talking about some "white victims"? By diverting attention from blacks being killed, they are trying to get people to ignore racism, which is the same thing as supporting it.

And as I said, the racism that whites experience from blacks is like comparing a paper cut to loosing your limbs. If you were a doctor, would you first treat a person with injured limbs or a paper cut? The answer is obviously the limbs and you would tell the guy with the paper cut to shut up and stop being a cry baby.

 

[BlackLivesMatterJeff]

You don't understand very much about fascism, or by extension, authoritarianism. Look at the propaganda you have been spreading in relation to fascism, or specifically authoritarianism and nationalism.

You are making claims that you are not a fascist, with proof of allegedly belonging to two anti-fascist groups, one actually. Anti-Racist Action is the North American faction of Antifa (mostly Europe); the former is known for domestic terrorism while the latter is known for violent protests.

First, Nazism was a government based on fascism, specifically nationalism, not the origins of fascism itself. As an authoritarian you by definition are ruled by one of the fascist tenets.

Nazism is commonly tossed around by authoritarians like BLM and other “anti-facsist” organizations, BLM, however, are authoritarians, and nationalists with a bit of Marxism in the mix, ironic huh? Also, it’s true that Nazism is widely used by other fascist states, mostly to distract from their underlying ideals; more influential than Stalinism in most cases.

Hold on a second, you're calling Anti-Racist Action and Antifa violent terrorist organizations? Wow and I'm the fascist? It's funny how fighting against fascism and racism makes you a fascist while spitting on the people that do doesn't make you one. Great logic! ARA was instrumental in organizing protests against Trump and Antifa was actually instrumental in getting the Swedish and German governments to accept 1+ million refugees in 2015, while so-called polite society would use excuses like "there are too many to accommodate" "there's not enough room". Now you tell me if that sounds like fascism or anti-fascism?

And yes all of us BLM, ARA, Antifa, various Anarchist groups work together because as you can see on this forum, there is way too much racism in the world. Racism that needs to be eliminated. We never opposed free speech but we will NOT tolerate Nazis and racists having a voice because "free speech" is their last refuge.

 

[expat]

You have to wonder why people get so upset when a disadvantaged group demands equality. We've seen some pretty terrible stuff posted about blacks in this thread. I think much of the vitriol directed towards BLM is coming from people who believe that racial inequality is justifiable.

This is a bit of a strawman though, isn't it? At least in my case, the problem isn't with a disadvantaged group demanding equality. It's a problem with some specific demands or tactics, in the context of BLM's protest during the Pride Parade.

On most of those demands, I'm agnostic - I don't know what the funding or hiring situation at Pride looks like, for instance, so I can't really say whether a demand for more/different funding or hiring policies is justified. It's the issue of demanding that the Police not be allowed to participate in Pride that I find troubling, because it seems fundamentally illiberal to me.

The presence of police at Pride may be upsetting to some, but of course the very idea of Pride itself is troubling to others. There's probably a large group of people in Canada who (for religious or whatever other reasons) feel that non-hetero sexualities are wrong, and find the entire parade deeply disturbing. The great thing about living in a liberal society is that those people are allowed to air their opinions, and the parade is also allowed to happen.

Insofar as they want to ban a group of people from appearing in the parade, BLM seem to be advocating a break from that liberal tradition, and that's where I disagree with them. Nobody much seems to have anything to say about this, though.

 

[freshcutgrass]

I don't know what the funding or hiring situation at Pride looks like, for instance, so I can't really say whether a demand for more/different funding or hiring policies is justified.

BLM doesn't know either, but as usual, their official default position with zero evidence is that Pride Toronto are anti-black racists.

What's more likely...Pride is anti-black racist (in which case they are utter failures at given the inclusion of blacks)...or that like everyone involved, they could use more funding and space where funding and space is limited? Exactly

So why do they do this?

Simple. Labelling you a racist is just one of their intimidation tactics of choice by which to extort what they want from you. But as I've mentioned, this tactic is getting old really fast, and losing its affect, as in short time, BLM has managed to label pretty much all inhabitants of the planet anti-black racists, including the vast majority of blacks.

Being labelled a racist by BLM is a good indication that you probably aren't a racist.

There are actual living, breathing self-identifying anti-black, white supremacists groups out there, who are the only people I can think of who actually don't think black lives matter.

And they are about the only demographic of the population BLM seems to ignore. LOL

The presence of police at Pride may be upsetting to some

Really...in 2016....who?

I'll grant you that there are a number of individuals who were around in 1981 and still harbour bitterness about it, and honestly, who could blame them.

Honestly, how many people feel that the presence of police in the parade (as opposed to the mandatory security along the parade) takes away from Pride as a safe place for LGBT (or black attendees)? Until the appearance of an anti-cop hate group making this claim, has there ever been any claims of this nature?

Does anybody really think that those imaginary anti-black racist cops are going to be slaughtering innocent black folks at the parade? Of course that's laughable. But BLM wants you to think it's a serious matter. This is yet again, another disingenuous claim by BLM.

So why do they do this?

Simple. BLM at its core, is an anti-cop hate group. Look how far relations have come since 1981 between the LGBT community and the TPS. A lot of positive change has taken place. But to an anti-cop hate group, positive change between a minority group and the police is a dangerous threat to their narrative and must be undermined, and that's why they are deliberately trying to drive a wedge between the LGBT community and TPS.

http://commdiginews.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/toronto-police-.jpg

 

[JWBF]

Hold on a second, you're calling Anti-Racist Action and Antifa violent terrorist organizations? Wow and I'm the fascist? It's funny how fighting against fascism and racism makes you a fascist while spitting on the people that do doesn't make you one. Great logic! ARA was instrumental in organizing protests against Trump and Antifa was actually instrumental in getting the Swedish and German governments to accept 1+ million refugees in 2015, while so-called polite society would use excuses like "there are too many to accommodate" "there's not enough room". Now you tell me if that sounds like fascism or anti-fascism?

I have no proof that you belong to any of these organizations, but the “good facts” you are promoting have been refuted to one level or another and your answers have usually been calling people racist or some other derogatory terms instead of providing proofs of your statements.

As for the propensity of violence and/or urban terrorism attributed to the groups you claim to be part of, as usual have not addressed those items. Instead you have used the tired idea that if you have done “good” then you are not accountable when you act in a deplorable manner. That said, sometimes the ends do justify the means, it’s a messy world. Absolutes are social constructs, and promoted by those who cling to power and control.

And yes all of us BLM, ARA, Antifa, various Anarchist groups work together because as you can see on this forum, there is way too much racism in the world. Racism that needs to be eliminated. We never opposed free speech but we will NOT tolerate Nazis and racists having a voice because "free speech" is their last refuge.

Rampant racisim? No, actually I don’t, well at least not in the threads I usually post and/or read in except for this one. The use of “white” and “black” as labels to separate people is quite racist, and the antithesis of equality.

Free speech is only free when everyone is entitled to it, not just the chosen few. Annoying? Yep, but no one ever said that democracy is unicorns and double rainbows.

As usual you have a flair for not answering questions or admitting when you’ve been outed for various things, like profiling, nationalism or authoritarianism.

I do have a question, what is your definition of “anarchy”?

I'm hoping you will address my statements and questions with something more that the standard propaganda you seem to not move beyond.

 

[TheKingEast]

This is a bit of a strawman though, isn't it? At least in my case, the problem isn't with a disadvantaged group demanding equality. It's a problem with some specific demands or tactics, in the context of BLM's protest during the Pride Parade.

On most of those demands, I'm agnostic - I don't know what the funding or hiring situation at Pride looks like, for instance, so I can't really say whether a demand for more/different funding or hiring policies is justified. It's the issue of demanding that the Police not be allowed to participate in Pride that I find troubling, because it seems fundamentally illiberal to me.

The presence of police at Pride may be upsetting to some, but of course the very idea of Pride itself is troubling to others. There's probably a large group of people in Canada who (for religious or whatever other reasons) feel that non-hetero sexualities are wrong, and find the entire parade deeply disturbing. The great thing about living in a liberal society is that those people are allowed to air their opinions, and the parade is also allowed to happen.

Insofar as they want to ban a group of people from appearing in the parade, BLM seem to be advocating a break from that liberal tradition, and that's where I disagree with them. Nobody much seems to have anything to say about this, though.

My post did not apply to you.