Barrie Collingwood Railway (BCRY)

[Nomad_87]

I think the part of the Newmarket SUB to Orillia has been re-developed and the ROW is not in tact. You would need to find an alternate path.

Bus service 7 days a week to Collingwood would be a start.

Yes, you’d need to do a lot of work through downtown Barrie to get it to Orillia. It’s likely just not worth it to do so

 

[micheal_can]

I think the part of the Newmarket SUB to Orillia has been re-developed and the ROW is not in tact. You would need to find an alternate path.

Bus service 7 days a week to Collingwood would be a start.

Most of the ROW between Orillia and Barrie still exists in its entirety. A new section could be started on the CP line at Midhurst and head to the ROW and then it is connected. Obviously, not that easy, but it could be as easy as that. The new section would be less than 20km.

Rail trails are train killers. It creates a NIMBY situation where people get accustomed to the trail, and will protest a train replacing the trail.

There is no "interim" beautification in our nimbys-come-first-centric policy making these days. Once a trail, always a trail.

My only argument to that is the future HFR along the old Havelock Sub. If it gets built, it may signal a return to rails.

 

[ShonTron]

Most of the ROW between Orillia and Barrie still exists in its entirety.

That sentence is an oxymoron.

I’ve biked the trail between Barrie and Orillia several times. The ROW is obliterated through Downtown Barrie, and built upon for a section near Penetanguishene Road. Cyclists have to detour to the roadway for about 600 metres. Near Downtown Orillia, it’s been built up upon, as it has at Casino Rama.

It’s not coming back.

 

[micheal_can]

That sentence is an oxymoron.

I’ve biked the trail between Barrie and Orillia several times. The ROW is obliterated through Downtown Barrie, and built upon for a section near Penetanguishene Road. Cyclists have to detour to the roadway for about 600 metres. Near Downtown Orillia, it’s been built up upon, as it has at Casino Rama.

It’s not coming back.

You are right that within the built up areas of the 2 cities it does not exist. For Barrie, that would be a case of it is never returning. North of Penetang Rd to the southern edge of Orillia it is intact. So connect to that part at the southern end. In Orillia, it may be a better idea to expropriate the land that the ROW used to have.

 

[lenaitch]

Gaa. This seems to resurrect once or twice a year on here. If anyone can find a politician, local or otherwise, saying they are willing to spend gobs of both money and political capital to expropriate and tear up Barrie's essentially brand new and still infilling water front, I'd like to hear it. Similarly for somehow cutting a greenfield ROW around Barrie. A lot the land around Midhurst is zoned for redevelopment so, while not necessarily built-up yet, the land value is high. There is also a non-insignificant grade to deal with. It's no mountain railroading but it would either cause a circuitous route or a lot of cutting. And once they connect to CP, then what?


Sure, anything is possible with enough money and an iron will. Same with bulldozing a line to Wasaga Beach or the base of hills at Blue. Given the cost, for what benefit? Maybe there is a fantasy thread here somewhere.

 

[micheal_can]

Gaa. This seems to resurrect once or twice a year on here. If anyone can find a politician, local or otherwise, saying they are willing to spend gobs of both money and political capital to expropriate and tear up Barrie's essentially brand new and still infilling water front, I'd like to hear it. Similarly for somehow cutting a greenfield ROW around Barrie. A lot the land around Midhurst is zoned for redevelopment so, while not necessarily built-up yet, the land value is high. There is also a non-insignificant grade to deal with. It's no mountain railroading but it would either cause a circuitous route or a lot of cutting. And once they connect to CP, then what?


Sure, anything is possible with enough money and an iron will. Same with bulldozing a line to Wasaga Beach or the base of hills at Blue. Given the cost, for what benefit? Maybe there is a fantasy thread here somewhere.

Maybe it is about coming up with realistic uses for this line. I'd expect a GO line to Collingwood in the 2030s. That seems reasonable. Going to Orillia?Would actually make more sense to come off the Bala Sub near Brechin. Either way, yes, Orillia is more fantasy than Collingwood.

The real issue is our governments have no forward thinking in rail.

 

[robmausser]

Most of the ROW between Orillia and Barrie still exists in its entirety. A new section could be started on the CP line at Midhurst and head to the ROW and then it is connected. Obviously, not that easy, but it could be as easy as that. The new section would be less than 20km.



My only argument to that is the future HFR along the old Havelock Sub. If it gets built, it may signal a return to rails.

Havlock is a trail in the middle of nowhere (albeit some parts through some small towns which I suspect VIA will route around), not in a suburban neighborhood. Very different.

 

[micheal_can]

Havlock is a trail in the middle of nowhere (albeit some parts through some small towns which I suspect VIA will route around), not in a suburban neighborhood. Very different.

That is why I am not suggesting anything in the actual city of Barrie.

 

[lenaitch]

Maybe it is about coming up with realistic uses for this line. I'd expect a GO line to Collingwood in the 2030s. That seems reasonable. Going to Orillia?Would actually make more sense to come off the Bala Sub near Brechin. Either way, yes, Orillia is more fantasy than Collingwood.

The real issue is our governments have no forward thinking in rail.

And you may see a service to C'wood, just not to downtown or the base of the hills as some seem to envision; not without a stupid amount of money and a lot of bulldozers anyway. Orillia via Brechin; about 20km of greenfield ROW (just to The Narrows) to connect to the CN mainline that might not have the capacity for decent service.

No argument about the lack of strategic thinking by governments, on most topics. Perhaps governments going back to the 50s and 60s should have preserved ROWs, but they didn't, and much of the costs to do things we now want are just too much.

 

[micheal_can]

And you may see a service to C'wood, just not to downtown or the base of the hills as some seem to envision; not without a stupid amount of money and a lot of bulldozers anyway. Orillia via Brechin; about 20km of greenfield ROW (just to The Narrows) to connect to the CN mainline that might not have the capacity for decent service.

No argument about the lack of strategic thinking by governments, on most topics. Perhaps governments going back to the 50s and 60s should have preserved ROWs, but they didn't, and much of the costs to do things we now want are just too much.

1) If there ever was demand further than Collingwood, we would see some creative work. Not necessarily bulldozing where the former ROW was, but finding a better way,.
2) None of it is greenfield from Brechin. There was an old ROW at one time there. Satellite view still shows it.

The real messes started around the 1990s when they sold that stuff off.It is not too much now, but it is not worth it yet. Yet is the key word. I'll think it may become worth it when a GO bus goes there.

 

[lenaitch]

1) If there ever was demand further than Collingwood, we would see some creative work. Not necessarily bulldozing where the former ROW was, but finding a better way,.
2) None of it is greenfield from Brechin. There was an old ROW at one time there. Satellite view still shows it.

The real messes started around the 1990s when they sold that stuff off.It is not too much now, but it is not worth it yet. Yet is the key word. I'll think it may become worth it when a GO bus goes there.

I trust you mean 'further to Collingwood'. Pretty much the entire north side of Poplar Sideroad - which is the town's southern boundary - is zoned residential. I believe the far east end near Hwy 26 may still be industrial/commercial. What isn't already built on is owned by developers. The satellite image on Google is out of date. I was through there two weeks ago and there are subdivisions that still show as greenfield on Google.

There might have been two railways running into Orillia from the east but I'm not sure. Regardless, the GBS, the land scar you see, was abandoned in 1932. If you think they are still continuous corridors and the successor railways still own and are paying taxes on them, I don't know what to say.

I know, the comeback is "they can if they want to'. I suppose. I also suppose 'they' could build and straight-as-an-arrow HSR to Montreal, or a straight and flat line through the Rockies. It's only money.

 

[micheal_can]

I trust you mean 'further to Collingwood'. Pretty much the entire north side of Poplar Sideroad - which is the town's southern boundary - is zoned residential. I believe the far east end near Hwy 26 may still be industrial/commercial. What isn't already built on is owned by developers. The satellite image on Google is out of date. I was through there two weeks ago and there are subdivisions that still show as greenfield on Google.

There might have been two railways running into Orillia from the east but I'm not sure. Regardless, the GBS, the land scar you see, was abandoned in 1932. If you think they are still continuous corridors and the successor railways still own and are paying taxes on them, I don't know what to say.

I know, the comeback is "they can if they want to'. I suppose. I also suppose 'they' could build and straight-as-an-arrow HSR to Montreal, or a straight and flat line through the Rockies. It's only money.

I mean bring GO to Collingwood first, and then if there was demand. Remember when the GO line was first to Barrie South? Do something like that for Collingwood to get GO train there.Then go from there if needed. Mind you, if the new station was done right, it may be all that is needed for that area.

Well, it isn't a subdivision there.It is farmland and bush. Yes, people own it. However, that would be why expropriation could be used. If Dougie wants to put in the Bradford Bypass, then this would be simple.

It is only money. If enough of a demand is there, then the cost starts to become irrelevant. As we speak, they are carving a divided highway through the Kicking Horse Pass. I do not know the costs, but it is in the billions and in the end, it will be worth it.

Would it be worth it right now to extend GO train to Collingwood? No.

 

[christine]

Well, it isn't a subdivision there.It is farmland and bush. Yes, people own it. However, that would be why expropriation could be used. If Dougie wants to put in the Bradford Bypass, then this would be simple.

Would it be worth it right now to extend GO train to Collingwood? No.

I don't think even GO bus service to Orillia makes sense, let alone GO trains. Is there a commuter market that far north? Or would it target the cottage/tourism market which is something the ONTC bus service would be better suited for.

Back to the BCRY corridor, as far as I'm aware GO Transit has not publicly expressed any interest in pursuing bus service west of Barrie and established service along that corridor should be a prerequisite before even looking at the BCRY mainline to Collingwood. The fact that Simcoe County is entertaining the idea of keeping whatever is left of the Collingwood to Utopia track is a big win, especially if you look at whats going on further south in Orangeville and Caledon.

 

[micheal_can]

I don't think even GO bus service to Orillia makes sense, let alone GO trains. Is there a commuter market that far north? Or would it target the cottage/tourism market which is something the ONTC bus service would be better suited for.

Back to the BCRY corridor, as far as I'm aware GO Transit has not publicly expressed any interest in pursuing bus service west of Barrie and established service along that corridor should be a prerequisite before even looking at the BCRY mainline to Collingwood. The fact that Simcoe County is entertaining the idea of keeping whatever is left of the Collingwood to Utopia track is a big win, especially if you look at whats going on further south in Orangeville and Caledon.

Don't know about either area, but until GO bus is introduced, nothing more will happen.

 

[Bordercollie]

Don't know about either area, but until GO bus is introduced, nothing more will happen.

I don't know why the mayor's of Stirling, Collingwood and Wasaga Beach get together and fund the GO bus to their city. Peterborough did it. Why can't they?