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Baby, we got a bubble!?

There are 2 items in today's The Globe and Mail.

1st item is the headline "Turbulence lies ahead for housing market". It talks about Ottawa might be forced to intervene again in the housing market by raising downpayment to 10%.

The other is an article on op-ed page by Mr. Neil Reynolds. This article discusses long term immigration and population growth trends in Canada, US and China.

In terms of population growth, GTA will grow by more than 9 million in the balance of the 21st Century... Canada needs this megalopolis for strategic demographic reasons -- for survival.

This kind of population growth, through immigration, means only one(1) thing -- irrespective of short term trends, on long term basis, prices of real estate, will continue going up.

Time to cheer up and mull over the next condo purchase?
 
Housing market remains vulnerable

^^^ not sure if this is the article you mention.
there are several graphs included in the article that could not be copied and pasted here.
i recommend one to take a look at them !


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ing-market-remains-vulnerable/article1704879/

Housing market remains vulnerable


Steve Ladurantaye and Barrie McKenna
Toronto and Ottawa — From Monday's Globe and Mail
Published on Monday, Sep. 13, 2010 3:00AM EDT
Last updated on Monday, Sep. 13, 2010 10:17AM EDT


Bloated debts and rising interest rates threaten to force a growing number of families to cut back and prompt Ottawa to intervene again to cool down the mortgage market.

Canadians have spent the past year rushing into a housing market fuelled by low mortgage rates, despite prices many could not afford if rates were to rise to more historically normal levels. About 375,000 homeowners are already being forced to cut spending in other areas, despite ultra low rates, the Canadian Association of Mortgage Professionals said in a recent report. A further 475,000 would find themselves in the same position if rates were to climb to 5.25 per cent.

The rebound in the housing market has been key to Canada's recovery from the recession. But it has left some facing a toxic combination of hefty debts and rising interest rates as the Bank of Canada pulls back from the emergency low rates used to juice the economy back to life.

The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development warned in an annual review of the Canadian economy that record high debt levels have left many vulnerable “to any future adverse shocks.â€

In the report being released today, the OECD said more measures could be taken by the federal government to keep marginal buyers out, suggesting an “overpriced†housing market needs to cool off before allowing more people to plunge in.

Some 7.5 per cent of Canadian households could be “financially vulnerable†by mid-2012 if borrowing keeps up at the same pace and interest rates rise as expected, the report said. Economists have warned that while Canadians aren't likely to default on their mortgages, they are likely to stop spending in other key areas, which would put a strain on the economy.

Canada isn't at risk of a U.S.-style real estate meltdown, OECD senior economist Peter Jarrett pointed out. But he said “there's somewhat of an excess†in the market that must be worked off.

The Paris-based OECD, a club of wealthy nations that includes Canada and 32 other economies, suggested Ottawa could require home buyers to put up bigger down payments if they want their mortgages federally insured. The government could also consider forcing banks to disclose the “sensitivity†of their mortgage revenues to rate hikes.

The organization said Canadians have been taking advantage of low interest rates to pay down their large mortgages, but “this is bound to change†as the Bank of Canada ratchets up rates and the economy begins to normalize. The bank has already raised rates three times this year.

If the government were to intervene, it would be the second time this year. In February, it introduced rules that made it harder to qualify for a variable-rate mortgage and increased the amount needed as a down payment if the buyer didn't plan to live at the address.

In February some thought the government would raise the amount needed for a down payment to 10 per cent from 5 per cent, but it opted instead to make all applicants qualify for a more expensive five-year mortgage when applying for the cheaper variable rate.

And while the housing market has shown signs of cooling, several markets continue to face what the OECD calls excess demand conditions.

Already seeing a slowdown in the housing market, some in the industry do not see the need for further action from Ottawa. “You don't throw a bucket of water on the fire once it has put itself out,†said Phil Soper, president of Royal LePage Real Estate Services, Canada's largest residential brokerage.

The warning about the frothy real estate market is contained in a 158-page report that generally lauds Canada's handling of the recession and the financial crisis, but forecasts less prosperous times ahead for the country.

Canada is on track to lead the Group of Seven in growth this year. The OECD is forecasting growth of 3.5 per cent this year and 3 per cent in 2011.

But over the medium term, Canada will likely grow much more sluggishly than it has over the past decade, and slower than some of its key competitors, Mr. Jarrett said.

“We're looking at a period when expectations need to be revised down,†he remarked.

The main culprit for the predicted slowdown is demographics. Canada is greying at a faster rate than the United States, opening up a hole in the tax-paying working population and increasing demands on government services by the elderly.

Mr. Jarrett said the Bank of Canada also must be mindful of not overheating the economy by keeping interest rates too low and that governments will have to rein in their spending to cope with much lower-than-expected tax revenues.

“Canada could be in trouble,†he said, if policy makers expect the economy to be the same as it was before the recession.

Mr. Jarrett likened the current environment to the early 1970s, when many people expected the economy to boom again like it had during the 1950s and 1960s. “We never went back to those growth rates,†he said.

The report also touches on the financial health of Ottawa and the provinces. And while the OECD said Canada stacks up well compared to other member countries, the country's fiscal health is deteriorating. The OECD said it's concerned about the deteriorating finances of some provinces, particularly Quebec and Ontario. The report said all levels of government must work to curb spending.
 
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Six in 10 live pay to pay

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/six-in-10-live-pay-to-pay/article1705096/

59% of Canadians would be in trouble if their pay was delayed by a week: poll

Tavia Grant
Globe and Mail Update
Published on Monday, Sep. 13, 2010 8:54AM EDT
Last updated on Monday, Sep. 13, 2010 11:44AM EDT


The recession may be officially over, but six in 10 Canadians are still surviving from paycheque to paycheque, a national survey showed Monday.

Fifty-nine per cent of Canadian workers say they would be in financial trouble if their paycheque was delayed by just a week – the same proportion as last year when the economy was still mired in a downturn, according to a poll of 2,766 people by the Canadian Payroll Association.

The survey comes as the OECD today warned that record high debt levels have left many Canadians vulnerable “to any future adverse shocks.†Also Monday, a Statistics Canada report showed household net worth fell 0.6 per cent in the second quarter, largely due to falling stock markets. Liabilities of households increased, meantime, led by mortgages and consumer credit.

Canada remains a debt nation, owing partly to a flurry of home-buying in this year. Eight in 10 Canadians in the poll say their first or second priority if they were to win a $1-million lottery would be to pay off their debt – an 11-per-cent increase from last year, “indicating that more Canadians are concerned about their debt load than they were a year ago,†the survey said.

Younger workers are having the greatest trouble meeting their current expenses, with two thirds of those aged 18-34 saying it would be very difficult, difficult or somewhat difficult for them to meet their current financial obligations if they missed even one paycheque.

Among households, the situation is most precarious for single parents, with three quarters saying they would have some trouble making ends meet if their pay were delayed.

Top economic concerns among Canadian workers are rising interest rates, not being able to save enough to retire comfortably, inflation and falling back into recession.

The poll also found:

* Almost two thirds, or 62 per cent, of respondents expect a salary increase but the vast majority, or 83 per cent, also expect their cost of living to rise in the next year.

* Almost half, or 47 per cent, are saving 5 per cent or less of their net pay. Sixty per cent of workers have been trying to save more than a year ago, though over half of them have been unsuccessful in doing so. Forty per cent say they’re not even trying to save.

* Confidence about economic growth is actually fading. Six in 10 feel the economy in their city or town will improve in the next year, down from 67 per cent in 2009. Workers in Ontario, Quebec and the Atlantic provinces are less confident about their local economies.

This is the second annual survey the payrolls association has conducted.

The survey was taken between late June and mid-July of this year.
 
Cdr 108, the article that I was referring to is the one that starts with "bloated debts...". The headline of this article in the print editions is "Turbulence lies ahead for housing market".

I have pasted a link to an article by Mr. Neil Reynolds about immigration and demographics. It talks about immigration to Toronto and without Toronto, Canada will begin a persistent decline. More than 40% of 250,000 immigrants a year head for GTA.

It, therefore, seems reasonable that if that many immigrants are headed for Toronto, then they are going to have an effect on house prices in the long term -- that is going up, notwithstanding current economic environment. What do you think?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...a-lot-can-happen-in-100-years/article1703279/
 
seems reasonable that if that many immigrants are headed for Toronto, then they are going to have an effect on house prices in the long term

Will the effect be positive or negative? A lot of immigrants don't have a great deal of wealth or income. Also, more recent immigrants are having greater trouble finding success compared to immigrants from 20 years ago.
 
Gold going up is a bad sign as it's a last retreat. Clearly the financial people don't trust this latest run. Neither do I.

Couldn't one argue that an investment in gold shows liquidity, which is a good sign for the economy? People aren't forced to invest anything. Historically, gold has gone up when the economy was expanding.

I don't feel good about the direction of the economy, but I'm saying that top-down justification of market behaviour is bull-shit.
 
My assignment listings at Neptune Bathurst and Lakeshore, if you are dealing with an agent with or without a contract respectfully deal with them. This is an up and coming area that is a value play for new product, one of the big things missing is a grocery flagship store - been planned for yrs at the corner of Bathurst and Lakeshore but yet to materialize, could bring a good upswing to prices if it happens, I am in the business of building relationships with all, not competing for clients. Thank you, if you find this beneficial in sharing my business with you all I will continue to post ( off topic ) items but that may have value to some here, but if you find them useless, no worries........ I wont post them at all....:cool:

http://www.torontomls.net/PublicWeb/CL.asp?link_no=32892481.026300
 
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www.kitco.com

Bubble George as one post said, yes we really like the wave up

New P&F price target: $1500

http://stockcharts.com/def/servlet/SC.pnf?c=$GOLD,P&listNum= triple top breakout. an indication the stock market is gonna crash, along with real estate and the bond market? Only means one thing: interest rates will skyrocket. :D
 
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Has anyone else noticed that there's a lot of inventory hitting the MLS? I check for new listings daily and anecdotally it seems there's been a flood as of late...
 
Has anyone else noticed that there's a lot of inventory hitting the MLS? I check for new listings daily and anecdotally it seems there's been a flood as of late...

Yes , I track these numbers and its not a good sign for supply, from June to Sept 5 there were about 15 new listings per day and the sold conditionals were more than the new listings, from Labour day onwards there has been avg 40 per day and sold conditionals about half of that.
 
In the last 8 days, I have received no fewer than 8 offers of discounted pre-construction. When looking vs. old price plans that I have for these places, these are not the typical "we've raised the price and are now giving it back", but real discounts that are being offered to the general public (not just brokers) and my bet is that you could get even more. I'm impressed that George is being so upfront about the flood of supply that's coming online in the past 10 days. My sources, who've been in the industry for 30 years, are not terrified, they've seen it before and knew it was coming, but are still a little beside themselves with open house but no one coming, etc. We're down 8% from peak in April in Toronto, nationally the increase is 0% year over year for the month of August. This could get very very ugly, very very fast. God I hope I'm wrong!
 

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