Automation: the answer to our prayers?

[Voltz]

All good things for reasons other than saving labour; but spending $2B in capital to achieve some part of a possible $50M return per year isn't a very good investment.


As stated earlier, there ARE good reasons to do these projects anyway; but reducing labour costs isn't one of them.

Not to mention that installing electronic fare systems and automated train control systems would require various skilled technical staff to run and maintain the systems, and they would likely be at a higher salary than the staff they are replacing. But of course, there would still be complaints of excessive wages.

 

[afransen]

Not to mention that installing electronic fare systems and automated train control systems would require various skilled technical staff to run and maintain the systems, and they would likely be at a higher salary than the staff they are replacing. But of course, there would still be complaints of excessive wages.

Doubtful, considering how much operators are paid.

 

[nfitz]

Doubtful, considering how much operators are paid.

You mean how little operators are paid! They only get $55,000 or so a year! It's an insult to call that overpaid!

 

[afransen]

Plus benefits!

 

[Second_in_pie]

Yes, some operators get paid $55k a year, but there are many operators earning six figures for sitting in a booth counting tickets. I think we've had this discussion before, actually.

And for the service they provide, I'd say that many don't deserve even $55k a year. I'm not generalizing that to everyone at all, but something needs to be done about the piss poor employees that are able to get away with doing a terrible job. They either need to clean up their act, get paid according to their service provided, or simply get fired.

I said it in the Eglinton thread, if we get bus drivers and fare collectors that are actually well educated in transit vehicle operation, customer service or have shown they are competent through years of experience, I believe they are entitled to a good living.
If someone comes to work lazy and unmotivated, insults their customers and provides a generally bad service, then they don't deserve to have "a good living." They need to clean up their act, or live below the standard of living that other people have worked to achieve. Even if they sit around collecting EI or pensions, I'd rather them doing that than getting paid quite well for pissing people off and making transit difficult for them.

 

[kEiThZ]

It's not much their paid that outrages the public but how little service they deliver in return. That's what makes them overpaid.

And if they ever decided to make booth jockey a separate career stream as TTC customer service reps (rather than "station managers"), they would be able to hire non-operators, train them specifically to service customers, probably pay them less since CSRs make no where near 55k a year anywhere else and still still improve productivity and service.

Anybody who does not believe me should go to Europe. In Munich, they have smart well dressed personnel who like they work for as airline counter staff, providing transit information, tourist info, maps, selling tickets, etc. Granted they're not at every station but for the unmanned ones they have fully automated ticket machines that work in half a dozen languages. That's far more than any TTC operator could do.

 

[officedweller]

http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/tcrp/tcrp100/part 5.pdf

AUTOMATIC TRAIN OPERATION
Automatic acceleration has long been a feature of rail transit, where relays, and more recently microprocessors, control the rate of acceleration smoothly from the initial start to maximum speed. Linking this feature to on-board commands from the signaling system provides automatic train operation.
Automated train operation systems often also provide for manual operation.
The acceptance of driverless trains in transit service has been slow.

The driver or attendant’s role is typically limited to closing the doors, pressing a train start button, and observing the line ahead, with limited manual operating capabilities to deal with certain failures. Dispensing entirely with a driver or attendant is controversial but has demonstrated its economy and safety on numerous automated guideway transit (AGT) systems, and on rail systems in Europe and Vancouver, B.C.

Automatic train operation (ATO), with or without attendants or drivers, allows a train to follow the optimum speed envelope more closely and commence braking for the final station approach at the last possible moment. This reduces station-to-station travel times, and, more importantly, from the point of capacity, it minimizes the critical station close-in time—the time from when one train starts to leave a station until the following train is berthed in that station. This can increase total line capacity by 2 to 4%.

 

[kEiThZ]

Let's face it, most of them are there because they are on light duties or something of the sort. I'd rather they be at home resting up and working towards getting back operating vehicles as quickly as possible. You don't see injured Air Canada pilots working ticket counters as light duties. They work hard to recover and get back in the cockpit.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Just wondering, will ATC solve the problem between High Park and Dundas West and Lawrence and Eglinton? For both those stretches, the trains go abysmally slow. I believe it's a signaling issue, and they should really get working on that, but ATC would negate all those kind of problems, both current and future, correct?

 

[adma]

Yeah, what those trains need is an automatic pilot

 

[StIdes]

One question though. How can an automated system control the doors for the subway train? That part of operations kinda needs a human discretion.

 

[Darwinkgo]

One question though. How can an automated system control the doors for the subway train? That part of operations kinda needs a human discretion.

It has worked on Skytrain for 20+ years. Heck, Calgary and Edmonton even have automatically run doors.

 

[kEiThZ]

Many transit systems around the world have automated doors. It's simple. It chimes and it closes. If somebody or something get's caught in a door, the train does not move until the blockage is cleared and the sensors show that every door is fully closed. It's not complicated technology at all.

 

[unimaginative2]

Yeah, what those trains need is an automatic pilot

The autopilot! It's deflating!

 

[Swarley]

Just wondering, will ATC solve the problem between High Park and Dundas West and Lawrence and Eglinton? For both those stretches, the trains go abysmally slow. I believe it's a signaling issue, and they should really get working on that, but ATC would negate all those kind of problems, both current and future, correct?

I know they're doing work on the bridge at Keele currently - it definitely didn't used to be that slow. (see http://www3.ttc.ca/Service_Advisories/Construction/Keele_Station.jsp)
Why it goes so slow between HP and Keele is a mystery though...