Anonymous Anti-Scientology Protest: April 12th, 2008, 11 AM

[Bentley]

Anonymous, I want your honest opinion.

Do you really think the idiots who by into that crap deserve to keep their money? People should learn to take responsibility for their own actions. If people become attracted to the group and are willing to pay for that, then what's the harm to you?

I won't get into a big debate about religion, but every religion has costs. Some monetary, and others much more significant than that (life). Why you choose to protest this one makes no real sense, because every religion is manipulating and prays on the weak. It's not exclusive to Scientology. Scientology just happens to extract more money out of it. Can't blame them for being good capitalists.

Besides, shitty real estate agents or mortgage brokers do the same thing. You gonna protest them too?

 

[Anonymous Anonymous]

How many times am I going to have to say this before it sinks in?

IT IS A CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION, NOT A RELIGION. Even completely ignoring the fact that their followers pay for it, they violate so many different laws it's unreal.

In the United States, they sued the federal government until they got tax exemption, an exemption no other religion gets in that their followers can write off expenses.

Anyone who speaks out against them is harassed and slandered. Just for posting your opinion that they are insane, you have risked having your boss be told you're a pedophile, your friends be told you're a terrorist, and the police be told that you've made bomb threats. Have you ever associated your name with this account? Or associated an email address you use for other stuff? Or, hell, even posted on here with your own IP and not a proxy like I use? If so, better hope no Scientologist ever sees your post there or you will be found out and possibly fair gamed. There are ex-Scientologists who left thirty years ago who are still followed daily by private investigators and can't leave their pets outside because they keep getting poisoned.

They prey on the weak, those in a bad emotional state. If you're depressed and on the verge of killing yourself, then hear about this great place that offers courses that can make you feel better, would you at least look into it? Possibly fall into the trap because you aren't thinking the way that any person in this thread so far thinks?

How would you like it if your best friend became a Scientologist and disconnected from you, never to speak to you again because you aren't a Scientologist? Would you be even the slightest bit pissed off? Or would you say "Serves him right, I guess I'll never speak to my best friend again and it's his fault for not wanting to be kicked out of the church and harassed for the rest of his life"?

If you have payed any attention to this thread, you will know that there is a lot more wrong with Scientology than just their members having to pay for it. Last that I checked, no real estate agent has ever locked their client in a room for them to die of dehydration and cockroach bites over a two week period. Nor do they typically advocate the murder of people who don't like them.

In conclusion, if after this you still think we're wrong, whatever. But believe me, we have dealt with trolls a lot better than you in the four some-odd months of this movement, and nothing you say will make a difference to us. Anonymous believes this is important, and if you don't agree, we don't care. We've gotten results, and that's what matters.

 

[indense]

Anonymous, I want your honest opinion.

Do you really think the idiots who by into that crap deserve to keep their money?

You didn't ask for my opinion but I'm in a giving mood. Gullible people don't deserve to be swindled any more than weak people deserve to be bullied or attractive people (like me) deserve to be sexually harrassed.

The church doesn't ask people to hand over their life savings on day 1. I doubt that the Heaven's Gate people were informed of the whole suicide thing at the first meeting either. They bring you in by telling you what you want to hear and then they break down your defences, gain your trust and brainwash you. They learn your weaknesses and then leverage them against you. Before you know it, you're fucked.

People should learn to take responsibility for their own actions.

"If she didn't want it she shouldn't have dressed like that."
The anti-scientology people are trying to make the church of scientology take responsibility for its actions. Why is it always the little guys who are told to take responsibility?

If people become attracted to the group and are willing to pay for that, then what's the harm to you?

When you see someone being conned out of their life savings, why bother saying anything? Really?

I won't get into a big debate about religion, but every religion has costs. Some monetary, and others much more significant than that (life). Why you choose to protest this one makes no real sense, because every religion is manipulating and prays on the weak. It's not exclusive to Scientology. Scientology just happens to extract more money out of it.

I'm as militant an athiest as there is and would like to see all religions purged from the planet but the church of scientology is at a different level. They are far more cult than religion (and yes, I know "All religions are cults!" will be the response) and their massive scale and power makes them far more of a problem than your standard Jim Jones type thing. Once they are gone, I hope Anonymous and others can start working on the other religions. Every journey starts with a single step or something like that.

Can't blame them for being good capitalists.

ENRON was doing a bang-up job too. Damn commies always trying to keep the good capitalists down.

Besides, shitty real estate agents or mortgage brokers do the same thing. You gonna protest them too?

You wouldn't need to protest real estate agents or mortgage brokers who are stealing from their clients because the legal system would hopefully step in and prosecute. When the criminals claim to be a religion, the government whistles and walks on by.

I applaud this groups efforts to bring some negative publicity to the church o' scientology - although I still think that making scientologists beliefs more public would be a good start (South Park has helped). Christians have no problem attacking and mocking other people's religious beliefs although they often do it in the privacy of their own churches. Once they find out what heretical beliefs they are losing recruits (and tithings) to, Christians could be your biggest ally. Also, Tom Cruise and his fellow celebrity scientologists need to be publicy mocked everywhere they go.

 

[Bentley]

You didn't ask for my opinion but I'm in a giving mood. Gullible people don't deserve to be swindled any more than weak people deserve to be bullied or attractive people (like me) deserve to be sexually harrassed.

The church doesn't ask people to hand over their life savings on day 1. I doubt that the Heaven's Gate people were informed of the whole suicide thing at the first meeting either. They bring you in by telling you what you want to hear and then they break down your defences, gain your trust and brainwash you. They learn your weaknesses and then leverage them against you. Before you know it, you're fucked.



"If she didn't want it she shouldn't have dressed like that."
The anti-scientology people are trying to make the church of scientology take responsibility for its actions. Why is it always the little guys who are told to take responsibility?



When you see someone being conned out of their life savings, why bother saying anything? Really?



I'm as militant an athiest as there is and would like to see all religions purged from the planet but the church of scientology is at a different level. They are far more cult than religion (and yes, I know "All religions are cults!" will be the response) and their massive scale and power makes them far more of a problem than your standard Jim Jones type thing. Once they are gone, I hope Anonymous and others can start working on the other religions. Every journey starts with a single step or something like that.


ENRON was doing a bang-up job too. Damn commies always trying to keep the good capitalists down.



You wouldn't need to protest real estate agents or mortgage brokers who are stealing from their clients because the legal system would hopefully step in and prosecute. When the criminals claim to be a religion, the government whistles and walks on by.

I applaud this groups efforts to bring some negative publicity to the church o' scientology - although I still think that making scientologists beliefs more public would be a good start (South Park has helped). Christians have no problem attacking and mocking other people's religious beliefs although they often do it in the privacy of their own churches. Once they find out what heretical beliefs they are losing recruits (and tithings) to, Christians could be your biggest ally. Also, Tom Cruise and his fellow celebrity scientologists need to be publicy mocked everywhere they go.

I'm not questioning the morality of what they do. But they aren't doing anything illegal. They really are just being good capitalists. They have found ways to extract money out of these people who if they could think for themselves wouldn't have given it. There's no real difference between that an a real estate agent that convinces you to buy a house you don't really want, or any salesman that convinces you to buy something you don't need. Better yet, the countless bankers and mortgage brokers who were handing out mortgages to people they knew would never be able to pay for them.

At the end of the day, we live in an opportunistic society and if you're not equipped to rationally make your own choices, then there's always gonna be someone who takes advantage of that.

In terms of Enron, there's no correlation. Their actions were illegal.

And in terms of other religions, what about Islam where they often teach it's good to die for Allah. I'll admit now I'm not well versed in it, but this is what I've read. I think that's a hell of a lot more important to protest than Scientology. But hey that's just my opinion. You can always make more money. Can't come back after a car bombing.

 

[Anonymous Anonymous]

I'm not questioning the morality of what they do. But they aren't doing anything illegal.

Well, it seems you aren't even reading my posts anymore if you still think they aren't doing anything illegal.

 

[Bentley]

What is illegal about what they do? They have their "religion" and to be a part of the religion and move up the ladder costs money. They prey on idiots who don't know any better. There is a moral issue with that, not a legal one.

Anyway you didn't answer my questions.

 

[Anonymous Anonymous]

What is illegal about what they do?

Since you're apparently incapable of reading it the first time, let me repost my long reply to you. Actually read it this time to see some examples of the criminal things the church do, and not just to their members.

How many times am I going to have to say this before it sinks in?

IT IS A CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION, NOT A RELIGION. Even completely ignoring the fact that their followers pay for it, they violate so many different laws it's unreal.

In the United States, they sued the federal government until they got tax exemption, an exemption no other religion gets in that their followers can write off expenses.

Anyone who speaks out against them is harassed and slandered. Just for posting your opinion that they are insane, you have risked having your boss be told you're a pedophile, your friends be told you're a terrorist, and the police be told that you've made bomb threats. Have you ever associated your name with this account? Or associated an email address you use for other stuff? Or, hell, even posted on here with your own IP and not a proxy like I use? If so, better hope no Scientologist ever sees your post there or you will be found out and possibly fair gamed. There are ex-Scientologists who left thirty years ago who are still followed daily by private investigators and can't leave their pets outside because they keep getting poisoned.

They prey on the weak, those in a bad emotional state. If you're depressed and on the verge of killing yourself, then hear about this great place that offers courses that can make you feel better, would you at least look into it? Possibly fall into the trap because you aren't thinking the way that any person in this thread so far thinks?

How would you like it if your best friend became a Scientologist and disconnected from you, never to speak to you again because you aren't a Scientologist? Would you be even the slightest bit pissed off? Or would you say "Serves him right, I guess I'll never speak to my best friend again and it's his fault for not wanting to be kicked out of the church and harassed for the rest of his life"?

If you have payed any attention to this thread, you will know that there is a lot more wrong with Scientology than just their members having to pay for it. Last that I checked, no real estate agent has ever locked their client in a room for them to die of dehydration and cockroach bites over a two week period. Nor do they typically advocate the murder of people who don't like them.

In conclusion, if after this you still think we're wrong, whatever. But believe me, we have dealt with trolls a lot better than you in the four some-odd months of this movement, and nothing you say will make a difference to us. Anonymous believes this is important, and if you don't agree, we don't care. We've gotten results, and that's what matters.

 

[Bentley]

Since you're apparently incapable of reading it the first time, let me repost my long reply to you. Actually read it this time to see some examples of the criminal things the church do, and not just to their members.

I did in fact read your drawn out convoluted posts. But you didn't show me anything illegal and didn't provide any actual evidence so I ignored it. I have never in my life heard of a case where someone was locked into a room and starved for two weeks. Where are you getting this info from? I presume a legitimate news source? Please post some links (and not those wikipedia and random websites you posted in your first post - I would like real factual links from legitimate news sources)

Show me an actual case where somebody was called a pedophile to their employer and somehow was negatively impacted by it AND there were zero repercussions for the individual who was caught doing this.

If individuals in the organization commit crimes and there is evidence against them, they most certainly would be punished for it. If the organization as a whole practices committing ILLEGAL activities (praying on idiots is not illegal no matter how much you want to pretend it is - it is a moral issue), they would also be held accountable for it.

You asked how I'd feel if my friend was converted and then stopped talking to me because I'm not a Scientologist. Well for one, he'd be a pretty shitty friend so I wouldn't mind all that much. And second, you haven't shown any evidence of this. Tom Cruise who I guess is the most famous scientologist seems to have plenty of friends who are not scientologist so I'm not sure where you're getting this info from.

There are only a few reasons why people go out of their way to protest things.

1) They have directly or indirectly been impacted by it.

2) The cause being protested is so significant and horrible that they can't help but feel bad. Things like the genocide in Darfur, Myanmar, Tibet, etc.

Scientology doesn't come anywhere close to that, so unless you've been directly hurt by the organization, then I fail to see why you would waste your life protesting it. There are countless things you could be doing with your time that would be more productive.

Anyway, good luck with your mission. Write a post here next year and let us know how much you've helped the world.

 

[Anonymous Anonymous]

So you think a large group of websites, some run by ex-scientologists isn't valid as a source? Man, you have some of the most stringent evidence guidelines I have ever seen.

Go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_mcpherson

Yes, I know you said no wikipedia, but hear me out. Go to the bottom of that page to the references section. Boom, dozens of news articles from places like the New York Times. This was the case I was referencing where a woman died under Scientology care. She was kept isolated in a room where she slowly slipped into insanity after refusing psych care at the behest of her scientologist comrades. Note that she was hardly in a good mental state when she did this.

By the fifth day, she was clearly off the deep end, yet they still kept her locked up. After seventeen days, they finally decided "Huh, maybe we should see a doctor about this." They drove past TWO OTHER HOSPITALS just so they could go to one with a Scientologist doctor on staff. She died that same day of a pulmonary embolism caused by, get this, SEVERE DEHYDRATION.

Note that the autopsy also found dozens of cockroach bites all over her body, as well as bruising. Do you know how the church reacted to this? They sued the coroner, claiming that she slandered the church's name. This is their policy: always attack, never defend. Everything I just said is confirmed in the public record, or is that not enough evidence for you?

Ever heard of Paulette Cooper? Here is an article WRITTEN BY HER talking about Fair Game. I'm sure you'll utterly discount it, seeing as how it's hosted on an anti-Scientology website, but alas, this event happened before the internet was common, so I can't find any original articles. I think a firsthand account should be enough. http://www.lermanet.com/paulette-cooper/index.htm

After she published an anti-Scientologist book, she was framed for bomb threats by the CoS and nearly went to federal prison. The only thing that saved her was documents found in an FBI raid on a Scientology org that proved she was framed. Again, this is all confirmed in the public record and has been corroborated by numerous print news sources and Cooper herself. The church, of course, claimed they didn't know what was happening to Cooper despite all the evidence to the contrary, and they claimed the org was acting independently.

Is Time magazine a good enough source for you? Here you go: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...,00.html?imw=Y

It focuses a lot on the financial scams, but it also shows some of the crimes that you seem to think are worthy. You know, stuff like harassment of critics, money laundering, tax evasion, and things of that nature.

If all of this isn't enough for you, I don't know what is. Give me some evidence to show you and I will find it. Frankly, I don't even know if I should try anymore. We will protest whatever we want, as it is our right to do so, just as it's your right to think we should be protesting "better things", whatever the hell that means. Like I said, we've dealt with trolls much worse than you and we're still standing.

EDIT: Oh hey, it's more officially published evidence!

A print article about Fair Game: http://www.lermanet.com/cos/aujurist.html
An article from the Guardian showing it in action: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/jun/09/claredyer
An affadavit from an actual trial: http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/legal/rvy.htm
And another: http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/~skent/Linkedfiles/erlich_fairgamesta.htm

 

[Bentley]

Fair enough.....They seem like a few isolated incidents to me, but I won't argue.

I say do what makes you happy. If this is what tickles your balls at night then go for it

 

[Panzerfaust]

I can tell you that what this guy is talking about, with the stalking and harassment of critics, is completely legit. One of my best friends' dad is involved in the anti-Scientology movement, and they were stalked for over a year by private investigators after her dad was identified as being against the church. They would recieve harassing calls in the middle of the night, find Scientology pamphlets in their mailbox every morning, get followed whenever they left the house, etc. They even had the cops called on them a few times claiming they made bomb threats on Scientologist offices, though obviously there was never any evidence and the tips were always made anonymously. The Scientologists finally gave up after one of their PIs messed up and had to explain to the police what he was doing lurking outside their house at 3 AM.

So yeah, Scientologists do condone the stalking and harassment of critics. My friend's experiences are enough to convince me of that, and the entire family has corroborated it, not that I have reason to disbelieve her in the first place.

 

[adma]

Anonymous Anonymous? Is that anything like Humbert Humbert?

(Hey. I just figured a new punk-rock pseudonym. L. Ron Humbert Humbert)

 

[Hydrogen]

L. Ron Humbert Humbert?


Then this would be Dolores Haze.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

Just walking by tonight, the Scientologists were out in full force, handing out pamphlets and setting up at least ten tables out on the sidewalk conducting their 'stress tests'. I was appalled how many people actually were partaking in said tests.

Though as an urban enthusiast, you can't doubt they didn't enliven the street.

 

[urbandreamer]

I am appalled by how many artists are scientologists! I'm serious: Toronto artsy folk are nuts for scientology