Aerial highway bypasses GTA

[Peepers]

The Toronto Star had an interesting opinion piece which raises what I think is a major transportation concern for Toronto.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1235602--aerial-highway-bypasses-gta

With the upcoming closure of Buttonville Airport Toronto will be left without a General Aviation Airport. "GA" aircraft will still be able to land at Pearson but the landing fees are very high. Maybe not a concern for those flying the "heavy metal" (e.g. Gulfstreams and Challengers) but for the bulk of General Aviation prohibitive.

Billy Bishop will still be open for general aviation as long as they are not "jets".

As the Toronto Star article notes, the implications of losing our only major General Aviation airport are very far reaching and could adversely effect our local economy.

A solution to this problem would be to develop Downsview as a major General Aviation AND Commercial airport. With direct access to the Subway Downsview could become Toronto's "Midway" Airport.

Also we should lift the restriction on "jets" at the Island along with lengthening the runway. This would allow most types of Business Jets to land on the Island just minutes from Downtown allowing Toronto to further develop as a major banking and financial services center.

 

[ShonTron]

Don't worry, a solution is in the works! It's called Pickering.

 

[nfitz]

Don't worry, a solution is in the works! It's called Pickering.

There's also KW Regional and Hamilton International. Though all are further from downtown.

 

[Paolo]

i second the pickering international airport

 

[dunkalunk]

As someone who knows not much about the capacity restraints at Pearson, how necessary is the Pickering airport? Could expansion of Downsview and Toronto Island be feasible?

 

[whatever]

There's also a GA airport in Oshawa. I was looking in to getting my recreational license and Oshawa seems to be the place to do it now

 

[gweed123]

Don't worry, a solution is in the works! It's called Pickering.

That's been talked about since the 1970s. There are only a handful of transportation infrastructure projects in the GTA that have been talked about and had nothing done about them for longer than the Pickering Airport.

Although there are some interesting developments that could change that. The first is the 407 East extension, which would pass within a few hundred metres of the south end of the airport lands. The other is the West Durham link, which will be less than 1km east of the lands.

Having the East Durham Link function as both a N-S expressway connecting the 401 and 407 AND a direct connection to the Pickering Airport, it may boost usage of the highway. It would basically make it the Highway 409 of the east end.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

As someone who knows not much about the capacity restraints at Pearson, how necessary is the Pickering airport? Could expansion of Downsview and Toronto Island be feasible?

It's... not. Essentially if Pearson could offload the GA traffic and some of the smaller private jets they would be able to handle the projected demand into the 2040's (that's my recollection but may be off, I remember it being way of in the future). That's after the fully complete the rest of the new Terminal 1 and twin the northern E-W runway.

** Correction **
The 2008-2030 Master Plan indicated that the airport would be approaching and exceeding capacity some time in the 2020's.

 

[gweed123]

It's... not. Essentially if Pearson could offload the GA traffic and some of the smaller private jets they would be able to handle the projected demand into the 2040's (that's my recollection but may be off, I remember it being way of in the future). That's after the fully complete the rest of the new Terminal 1 and twin the northern E-W runway.

** Correction **
The 2008-2030 Master Plan indicated that the airport would be approaching and exceeding capacity some time in the 2020's.

From what I understand one of the big advantages to the Pickering Airport is the offloading of some of the cargo flights into Pearson. With the Pickering Airport, you would have direct access to the 407, and only be a short hop away from the 401. Also, it wouldn't be that difficult to build a freight line to either the CN or CP mainlines. Put all of those together, and you have a pretty decent intermodal facility.

 

[Peepers]

As someone who knows not much about the capacity restraints at Pearson, how necessary is the Pickering airport? Could expansion of Downsview and Toronto Island be feasible?

An expansion of Downsview and Billy Bishop would be feasible but it would require political will and courage and I don't know if we have that in this city.

Downsview occupies more land than Chicago's Midway Airport (aka "the World's busiest square mile"). Midway handles 18 Million passengers a year. At Downsview you could build a facility with a 20 Million Capacity. If the Runway at Billy Bishop was lengthened you could increase the capacity of that airport to about 10 Million a year (I base this on the fact that London City (UK) with its 4,000 ft single runway has a maximum capacity of 8 million).

With an expansion of Downsview and Billy Bishop together you could handle about 30 Million passengers a year which is about what Pearson currently handles annually and you could achieve this with airports that would have direct access to the Subway, in the case of Downsview, and Streetcars, in the case of Billy Bishop. This is way more preferable than building an Airport way out in Pickering. If ever built Pickering would become like Mirabel, another white elephant of use only for Cargo flights.

 

[gweed123]

An expansion of Downsview and Billy Bishop would be feasible but it would require political will and courage and I don't know if we have that in this city.

Downsview occupies more land than Chicago's Midway Airport (aka "the World's busiest square mile"). Midway handles 18 Million passengers a year. At Downsview you could build a facility with a 20 Million Capacity. If the Runway at Billy Bishop was lengthened you could increase the capacity of that airport to about 10 Million a year (I base this on the fact that London City (UK) with its 4,000 ft single runway has a maximum capacity of 8 million).

With an expansion of Downsview and Billy Bishop together you could handle about 30 Million passengers a year which is about what Pearson currently handles annually and you could achieve this with airports that would have direct access to the Subway, in the case of Downsview, and Streetcars, in the case of Billy Bishop. This is way more preferable than building an Airport way out in Pickering. If ever built Pickering would become like Mirabel, another white elephant of use only for Cargo flights.

Expanding urban airports though is a pretty difficult manoeuvre, especially in the case of Downsview, which is pretty much inactive for all intensive purposes.

I think Pickering would be great for 3 things: Cargo, GA, and one or two regional carriers who aren't very reliant on transfers. WestJet comes to mind.

And even if it is "just a cargo airport", that's fine. Cargo is a huge percentage of the total flights in and out of Pearson. Take away those, and you've opened up a lot more flight times for passenger aircraft. Pearson will be facing both a terminal space restriction and a runway availability restriction in the coming decade or so. Removing a good chunk of cargo flights to and from Pearson solves one of those problems. The other one can be solved by building a new Terminal 2.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

From what I understand one of the big advantages to the Pickering Airport is the offloading of some of the cargo flights into Pearson. With the Pickering Airport, you would have direct access to the 407, and only be a short hop away from the 401. Also, it wouldn't be that difficult to build a freight line to either the CN or CP mainlines. Put all of those together, and you have a pretty decent intermodal facility.

I look at airports such as Hamilton's Munro airport, K-W's Waterloo regional airport and London's London international as existing airports that could expand by taking some of Pearson's traffic. Without the need to build a wholly new airport. Hamilton, in particular could become a cargo hub and take that load off of Pearson. Especially if, as you and I have discussed elsewhere, the 407 were extended west to be in the vicinity of Munro.

It seems to me that the East end of the GTA has not grown as much as the West end of the GTA and so a secondary airport would probably be better served by being in the West end.

*Side thought*
Given what appears to be Niagara Falls' continued growth (or intent to grow) as an international tourist destination. Why wouldn't the next 'new' airport in Ontario be located in Niagara falls to increase it's appeal.

*****

Expanding urban airports though is a pretty difficult manoeuvre, especially in the case of Downsview, which is pretty much inactive for all intensive purposes.

I think Pickering would be great for 3 things: Cargo, GA, and one or two regional carriers who aren't very reliant on transfers. WestJet comes to mind.

And even if it is "just a cargo airport", that's fine. Cargo is a huge percentage of the total flights in and out of Pearson. Take away those, and you've opened up a lot more flight times for passenger aircraft. Pearson will be facing both a terminal space restriction and a runway availability restriction in the coming decade or so. Removing a good chunk of cargo flights to and from Pearson solves one of those problems. The other one can be solved by building a new Terminal 2.

I don't think they have a restriction on the terminal side, their master plan indicated that it is the runway capacity that is the restricting factor. They won't be able to push as many planes through the runways despite having the capacity at the terminal to handle more passengers. This is why the plan suggested removing things such as GA traffic and cargo operations which brings down the number of passengers per plane that are brought into the airport, as well as increasing the size of aircraft that land there.

 

[Long Island Mike]

This shows the importance of "secondary" airports...to cities like Toronto...

Everyone: Interesting topic about aviation traffic to the Toronto region...

This subject reminds me of the importance for example of "secondary" airports
for this type of aviation...in the NYC area like Teterboro in close-by New Jersey
and metropolitan airports like Stewart and Westchester County Airports along
with Republic and LI-MacArthur Airports on Long Island...

Some of these airports have scheduled air service but the attraction is avoiding
the congestion at NY's Big Three: JFK,LGA and Newark-Liberty(EWR) Airports...

Downsview would probably be a good fit for this type of aviation traffic but if
there is a service expansion there could be problems with NIMBY opposition
over jet noise and increased air traffic noting that it is surrounded by residential
areas...and may have reduced hours if a "curfew" on takeoffs and landings is
implemented to allow new service expansions...

The access to Downsview is good with the TTC Subway to access Downtown
Toronto as mentioned and have facilities like ample parking if need be...

Yes-secondary airports are important to major cities like Toronto...

LI MIKE

 

[gweed123]

I look at airports such as Hamilton's Munro airport, K-W's Waterloo regional airport and London's London international as existing airports that could expand by taking some of Pearson's traffic. Without the need to build a wholly new airport. Hamilton, in particular could become a cargo hub and take that load off of Pearson. Especially if, as you and I have discussed elsewhere, the 407 were extended west to be in the vicinity of Munro.

It seems to me that the East end of the GTA has not grown as much as the West end of the GTA and so a secondary airport would probably be better served by being in the West end.

*Side thought*
Given what appears to be Niagara Falls' continued growth (or intent to grow) as an international tourist destination. Why wouldn't the next 'new' airport in Ontario be located in Niagara falls to increase it's appeal.

*****

I wouldn't be opposed to expanding Hamilton's airport, especially if they build the A-Line LRT and widen Highway 6 to provide direct access to it. However, I think Hamilton would have more of a roll as a GA + passenger service airport than as a cargo airport. It's quite a distance from any major freight line, and even with the 407 extension, getting to the 401 would be a problem.

But in terms of cargo, I still think a Pickering Airport is the best option.

The Niagara Airport is an interesting option, but again, the transportation options aren't good. GO isn't going to go anywhere near there in any significant capacity for a long time, and the QEW is packed as it is. The Mid-Pen would help, but that isn't coming for a while either.

 

[jn_12]

The Niagara Airport is an interesting option, but again, the transportation options aren't good. GO isn't going to go anywhere near there in any significant capacity for a long time, and the QEW is packed as it is. The Mid-Pen would help, but that isn't coming for a while either.

Niagara is a region of just under 500k people. How many places of that size don't have an airport? Now add in the fact that the region is the biggest tourist destination in the country, and it makes even less sense why it's been ignored. I don't think the proximity to GO matters that much as it's not like GO currently plays a big role in Pearson's operations, and traffic beyond the Skyway in St Catharines (which is perpetually under construction) towards Fort Erie really isn't all that packed. The region has a number of rail lines throughout (Welland's motto to this day is "where rails and water meet") and the canal as well. I know the Ministry of Tourism and the Ministry of Transportation would rather see Hamilton become the de facto airport for the Niagara Region, but it really isn't working out that way.

Oh and thankfully the Mid-Penn will never be built. It'd be an absolute travesty for the region.