Aerial highway bypasses GTA

[Peepers]

Expanding urban airports though is a pretty difficult manoeuvre, especially in the case of Downsview, which is pretty much inactive for all intensive purposes.

Expanding Downsview for General Aviation a/c would be easy to do because the existing 7,000 ft. runway is more than adequate for most private a/c (after all this is where they make the Bombardier Global Express) and there is lots of land around for FBO facilities. If Downsview was opened to General Aviation I think you would see most private jets landing there instead of Pearson which would help lighten the load on Pearson.

To develop Downsview as a commercial airport would of course be much more involved as it would require all new runways, new terminal, parking, etc. which means expropriation of some land and scrapping the Downsview Park which would not make some people happy (not sure why anyone thought a Park was needed here when the area is served by an extensive network of beautiful ravines).

As for developing Pickering , I think we would be far better off developing Waterloo Regional Airport. Already it is being served by WestJet and American Eagle. As for an airport to handle Cargo flights, we have Hamilton already attracting many Cargo a/c , e.g CargoJet, LOT Polish Airways, UPS, etc.

 

[gweed123]

Expanding Downsview for General Aviation a/c would be easy to do because the existing 7,000 ft. runway is more than adequate for most private a/c (after all this is where they make the Bombardier Global Express) and there is lots of land around for FBO facilities. If Downsview was opened to General Aviation I think you would see most private jets landing there instead of Pearson which would help lighten the load on Pearson.

To develop Downsview as a commercial airport would of course be much more involved as it would require all new runways, new terminal, parking, etc. which means expropriation of some land and scrapping the Downsview Park which would not make some people happy (not sure why anyone thought a Park was needed here when the area is served by an extensive network of beautiful ravines).

I was thinking more of the political maneuvering. I acknowledge that it is certainly technically feasible, but the political situation that would create would want to be avoided at almost all costs.

The area around Downsview has seen a tonne of residential development around it since it was last really used. These residents bought in with the assumption that it was going to be occasionally used, and that's it. Propose flying GA and corporate jets into there, and you'll be raising a NIMBY shitstorm the likes of which have not been seen since the Spadina Expressway days.

As for developing Pickering , I think we would be far better off developing Waterloo Regional Airport. Already it is being served by WestJet and American Eagle. As for an airport to handle Cargo flights, we have Hamilton already attracting many Cargo a/c , e.g CargoJet, LOT Polish Airways, UPS, etc.

I have no doubts that one of Hamilton, Waterloo, or a new airport in Niagara Falls needs to be built/expanded for the western end of the GTHA. But the eastern end needs something too. East of Downsview, the next airport eastward that has a runway over at least 2kms long is CFB Trenton!

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

In all of the Pickering boosterism here, does the declaration of the Rouge as a national park have any impact? Aren't they supposed to be donating some of the airport lands to the new park?

Personally, I favour the Downsview solution in combination with expansion of Waterloo & Hamilton. Why build new facilities when you have underused current facilities?

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I wouldn't be opposed to expanding Hamilton's airport, especially if they build the A-Line LRT and widen Highway 6 to provide direct access to it. However, I think Hamilton would have more of a roll as a GA + passenger service airport than as a cargo airport. It's quite a distance from any major freight line, and even with the 407 extension, getting to the 401 would be a problem.

But in terms of cargo, I still think a Pickering Airport is the best option.

The Niagara Airport is an interesting option, but again, the transportation options aren't good. GO isn't going to go anywhere near there in any significant capacity for a long time, and the QEW is packed as it is. The Mid-Pen would help, but that isn't coming for a while either.

I just don't see the potential for cargo out of Pickering. The population density, and most of the factories and warehouses are in the West end of the GTA (in Mississuaga, Etobicoke, etc). Shipping cargo right through the heart of the GTA even if it were on a rail line does not sound enticing to me.

 

[bimjim]

There is an existing private intiative out of the membership of the Buttonville Flying Club called Pickering Airpark. It uses part of the lands set aside for Pickering International to create an airstrip and hangars for private use, hopefully to become a part of the larger airport when that arrives.

Info here...
http://www.pickeringairpark.com/

 

[canarob]

In all of the Pickering boosterism here, does the declaration of the Rouge as a national park have any impact? Aren't they supposed to be donating some of the airport lands to the new park?

Personally, I favour the Downsview solution in combination with expansion of Waterloo & Hamilton. Why build new facilities when you have underused current facilities?

As far as I understand, the federal lands east and south of the actual airport lands are what will be added to Rouge Park. The airport is still very much alive.

I don't understand why so many don't see a need for an airport east of Mississauga? I wouldn't disagree with also expanding Hamilton or the KW, but any new airport simply has to be in the east end of the GTA. Huge growth is planned for the eastern GTA and there would be be opportunities for connections to transit in Durham, YRT and GO. A rail link might also be possible on the freight line adjacent to where the airport is planned. A new airport in the western GTA would result in everyone east of Yonge Street being forced to drive to the airport.

 

[bimjim]

Quite a few members of the Buttonville Flying Club (probably the largest club in Canada in terms of numbers) come long distances to meetings and to fly. And with the several progressive closings of other GA airports they come in from all over the GTA.

When we heard about the impending closing, naturally enquiries were made about adding BFC planes to the various other airports in the area but they all maxed out and there were still a hefty number of people left out in the cold. So we came to the conclusion that there is a need for an independent airport/strip where members are not subject to the whims and fancies of airport owners, airport authorities, and so on, hence the establishment of a new airport 100% owned by the users.

Various sites were viewed and considered, but the final decision was to go with a strip within the Pickering lands where aviation would not then be subject to the whining of NIMBYers and/or people moving to live on the edge of an airport and then complaining about the noise - or heaving their chests and expounding about expansion.

Pickering lands are designated for an international airport - the Pickering Airpark intends to be the satellite forerunner of the Pickering International Airport and to exist ion the edge of that monster when it arrives.

The Buttonville Flying Club members are looking to the future, not waiting for the past or events to overtake us. If you want to be a proactive part of the future (and to be part of what will be the biggest flying club in Canada), call and talk to Mark Brooks about the future possibilities (see the Airpark web site for contacts).

 

[canarob]

I just don't see the potential for cargo out of Pickering. The population density, and most of the factories and warehouses are in the West end of the GTA (in Mississuaga, Etobicoke, etc). Shipping cargo right through the heart of the GTA even if it were on a rail line does not sound enticing to me.

Also, this is a bit chicken and egg. Many of these warehouses are there because of Pearson. Land is cheaper in Durham and there's a sizable industrial base in Oshawa and tons of warehouses nearby in places like the 404 corridor, so there's no reason it couldn't work.

 

[Vaucluse]

One thing to remember about Downsview is that the airport was sold in the early '90s to DeHavilland (now part of Bombardier) for $1. Bombardier quite likes that it is the only user of the airport and wants to keep it that way.
When I was stationed at CFB Toronto in the mid-90s the landing fees for ga aircraft set by Bombardier at Downsview was about 4x what Perason was charging. This was done to distract any potential users of the airport, I'm certain their attitude hasn't changed since then.

 

[M II A II R II K]

I say build and Exhibition and/or Portlands business airport, close to downtown and no boats required.

 

[dunkalunk]

The idea of a Portlands Airport is intriguing but I see a few major issues with constructing an airport here.

1) The flightpath of any runway in the docklands would likely interfere with the existing Billy Bishop airport
2) There are plans to naturalize the mouth of the Don River
3) The land would be worth more as an urban neighbourhood

Additionally, isn't there a tunnel currently in the works to go under the western gap to connect to the airport?

A docklands airport would only be feasible in a situation where the island airport no longer existed.

 

[Transportfan]

It's safe to assume that a new airport in the port lands would replace the island airport.

 

[unimaginative2]

I fear Pickering will happen, but I think it would be a huge mistake at this point. Spending hundreds of millions of dollars (if not more) to build a greenfield general aviation airport is crazy. Funding it through the landing fees at Pearson that are already among the highest anywhere is even worse. If Buttonville really needed to close, Markham, Brampton, and Oshawa could likely pick up the slack more reasonably.

 

[Dan416]

I agree that building a brand new airport in this day and age when we already have several is the height of shortsightedness and totally runs counter to ideas like sustainable development and environmentalism.

I sincerely hope we don't build Mirabel II here.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Then keep the island airport but at least put a people movie through the tunnel instead of having to walk with your bags through it.