'Absolute bedlam' on Pearson's busiest day

[urbanfan89]

Don't forget the awful condition many if not most of those immigrants lived when they arrived here. Check out old photos of the Ward for a local example. A recent report (I forget by whom) stated that there are 60 million people around the world who would pick Canada as their first choice for immigration. We simply do not have the resources to triple our population instantly while ensuring the economic and physical wellbeing of those immigrants.

That's true. But Canada has plenty of available room and resources, and we're not exactly Hong Kong.

There are brain drain concerns again here too. What would happen to China, India, the Philippines, etc. if their middle classes just up and left en masse for the developed world? Consider too what has been happening to local communities in the world's tropical paradises when they are flooded with wealthy North American/European ex-pats - what would happen if all the restrictions that so far have at least partially limited the devastating effects of ex-pat-driven rising land prices in some parts of the world suddenly disappeared?

I haven't heard of anyone in Canada/US/Europe arguing for restrictions on immigration in order to keep the middle class in China/India/Philippines at home. In fact immigration has helped them: China and India would not be booming today if it weren't for their emigrants using the capital and skills they picked up abroad in their land of origin. Wealthy western retirees already essentially have the freedom to buy property wherever a market economy exists, since they're seen as an easy source of foreign exchange. As long as capital is mobile then labour should also be as mobile as feasible.

I'm all for a borderless world eventually, but I don't think it's possible so long as huge economic/political/legal disparities exist between countries.

Doesn't hurt to make steps. First, perhaps, would be an agreement with Europe or Australia allowing their citizens to freely live and work (excluding certain undesirables with criminal histories) in Canada, and vice-versa. This could be gradually expanded over decades to, say, Japan, Korea, Russia, and other developed countries. Maybe by the time I'm an old geezer the only restrictions on movement will be imposed by totalitarian dictators fearful of their minions fleeing to freedom.

 

[picard102]

That's true. But Canada has plenty of available room and resources, and we're not exactly Hong Kong.

Unless you assign where imagrants live, having plenty of room isn't going to help.

First, perhaps, would be an agreement with Europe or Australia allowing their citizens to freely live and work (excluding certain undesirables with criminal histories) in Canada, and vice-versa.

Not sure we have a shortage of people looking for work as it is.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Just one more reason why I don't travel to the US anymore....not that I ever did by plane.

 

[gabe]

Security is patting down everyone and searching head to toe, they open your wallet and fan through your cards too. A lot of people are missing their flights because of the long security lines. If you do fly to the US get there 4 or 5 hours early.

 

[Second_in_pie]

That's true. But Canada has plenty of available room and resources, and we're not exactly Hong Kong.

This is the one thing I don't get when people put up the usual immigration arguments. Here is a country which has literally millions of kilometers of new possibilities, where the government has a myriad of choices for new opportunity cities for immigrants, yet we're harsher on immigration than the US (relative by populaion.) But setting up government programs and plans for immigration would cost money, something our Conservative government seems allergic to

 

[jn_12]

Things are only better at YTZ compared to Pearson. Compared to how YTZ usually operates, the last few days have been just as bad. If you're used to going through YTZ security in a minute, the fact you're now looking at an hour is a significant increase.

 

[MisterF]

I'm booking a flight to Italy that won't go through the US just to avoid this whole mess.

Doesn't hurt to make steps. First, perhaps, would be an agreement with Europe or Australia allowing their citizens to freely live and work (excluding certain undesirables with criminal histories) in Canada, and vice-versa. This could be gradually expanded over decades to, say, Japan, Korea, Russia, and other developed countries. Maybe by the time I'm an old geezer the only restrictions on movement will be imposed by totalitarian dictators fearful of their minions fleeing to freedom.

I could see an approach like this working. Having Europe and Japan on board would reduce the influence of the US.

There's probably a few countries we could make Schengen-type agreements with without much hassle: parts of the Caribbean and parts of the Commonwealth, for example. However, for the time being, any agreement with the US would involve too many consessions on our part. Europe works because there is no superpower dictating terms or wielding too much power. The relationship between the US and Canada is too one-sided. It's the same reason why Russia will probably never join Schengen, and why so many people are hostile to Turkey joining (although, admittedly in both cases, there are many other reasons for not letting them in).

And in the case of both Turkey and Russia, even the two of them together couldn't dominate the EU the way the United States would dominate a North American union. The US has more people and wealth than Canada and Mexico combined.

This is totally the boat I'm grabbing a ride on. Canada definitely needs to get more trading partners and stop being an abnormally large growth clinging onto the US. The problem is that I don't think the US would even allow free borders with Canada, let alone the EU or Latin America. So we shouldn't dwell on that, and just take our new business elsewhere. There's a myriad of opportunities waiting for us, and so far we've been sitting on the front step.

Canada has free trade with Chile, Costa Rica, Iceland, Switzerland, Norway, Lichtenstein, and Israel. Trade has increased dramatically with most of those countries (free trade with the European countries only came into effect this year). We're negotiating free trade agreements with the EU, several Latin American countries, South Korea, Singapore, and Jordan.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I appreciate the discussion on other issues, but I think this is straying well off topic. Maybe a mod should split it off into another thread in Politics and Diplomacy or something?

 

[gabe]

Granny searches a search for cover
Kelly McParland, National Post
Published: Tuesday, December 29, 2009

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2386876#ixzz0b82g2YKD

Predictably, the reaction of security authorities to the Nigerian man who attempted to blow up a passenger plane landing in Detroit (we're just going to dispense with the "allegedlys" here, if you don't mind) is to make life as miserable as possible for all the people who didn't try to blow up a plane on Christmas morning.

They missed a guy from Nigeria, who was so radicalized that his own father grew frightened about his intentions and notified U.S. authorities. So everyone else has to suffer: old ladies, mothers with babies, students, families on their way to a holiday. Wailing kids are forced to stand around uselessly in a mob of frustrated travellers in a boring airport just so the security people can make a show of how careful they're being, just in case that grandfather from Butte turns out to be an al-Qaeda mad bomber in disguise. Folks are needlessly humiliated, forced to pry open their bags on the airport floor, dragging out their carefully packed clothes and toiletries, jamming stuff from one suitcase into another to please the new, arbitrary regulations adopted in a panic by a security apparatus in a high state of embarrassment.

All of it just in case -- just in case -- some poor sucker from Vancouver or Halifax or Hong Kong or Sydney decides to try the exact same trick as the crazy man from Nigeria. Of course, the grannies and the students and the families haven't been to a training camp in Yemen recently, nor have their parents tried to turn them in as religious nuts, nor have they come from a region known as a growing hotbed of radicalism. They're just being harassed to save face, so the security people can make a show of being super-duper extra careful because they happened to make a bad call on a single traveller out of the hundreds of thousands travelling on that one day, which happens to be among the busiest travel times of the year.

And guess what. They didn't find any more potential terrorists. Nope. They did snare another Nigerian man who apparently really had to go to the bathroom, but it turns out all those grannies were just grannies, the families with kids were just families, the kids were grouchy for very good reason, and the suitcases didn't need to be ripped open on the terminal floor. Oh, and the seven-hour waits were entirely unnecessary.

Maybe someone at Homeland Security feels better about life for having ordered it all, pointless as it proved to be. But here's a suggestion: If you're an investing sort, bet against anything to do with the tourist industry. Airlines especially. Boomers have this notion that the world is open to exploration, and they can just get on a plane and go. Maybe it's time for a re-think. Eight years after one guy tried to sneak a bomb onto a plane in his shoe, we're all still taking our shoes off every time we get on a plane -- sandals, flip-flops, you name it -- just to keep the security folks happy. Now we're going to be bound to our seats, limited in bathroom breaks, subjected to ever-more degrading and embarrassing body examinations for the privilege of flying to Omaha or Albuquerque. The last hour of many flights will turn into the equivalent of a high school detention, as passengers are ordered to sit quietly at attention, hands in their laps, looking straight ahead as teacher keeps an eye out for miscreants.

"Passenger in 26B! Quit touching passenger in 26A"

"But she touched me first!"

I don't know about you, but as far as I'm concerned air travel is barely worth it now, and if it gets any more annoying it's not going to be worth it at all.

 

[TO City of Light]

What are the consequences of all this????

We'll just have to get used to fewer Americans traveling abroad and fewer people traveling to America.

I think the world can handle it.


.

 

[toraerach]

This is the one thing I don't get when people put up the usual immigration arguments. Here is a country which has literally millions of kilometers of new possibilities, where the government has a myriad of choices for new opportunity cities for immigrants, yet we're harsher on immigration than the US (relative by populaion.) But setting up government programs and plans for immigration would cost money, something our Conservative government seems allergic to

Usually I wouldn't make an argument like this. Canada is fully capable of absorbing many more immigrants per year than it currently does. However, if we were to drop all restrictions, we will open ourselves to mass migration on a scale we've never seen. On the National a few weeks ago there was a report about a UN report (I believe) on migration patterns that said 60 million people would choose Canada if they could migrate to any country. We simply cannot build the infrastructure necessary to accomodate that many people in a short time span. Back when we were "The last, best West," people didn't need sewage systems, electricity, mass transit, highways, high-tech hospitals and schools - now they do.

EDIT: sorry about going off topic.

 

[AGTO]

We'll just have to get used to fewer Americans traveling abroad and fewer people traveling to America.

I think the world can handle it.


.

I think the world would appreciate it.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Usually I wouldn't make an argument like this. Canada is fully capable of absorbing many more immigrants per year than it currently does. However, if we were to drop all restrictions, we will open ourselves to mass migration on a scale we've never seen. On the National a few weeks ago there was a report about a UN report (I believe) on migration patterns that said 60 million people would choose Canada if they could migrate to any country. We simply cannot build the infrastructure necessary to accomodate that many people in a short time span. Back when we were "The last, best West," people didn't need sewage systems, electricity, mass transit, highways, high-tech hospitals and schools - now they do.

EDIT: sorry about going off topic.

I can think of two things to do: First is to ease it in over a couple decades, like 3 or so. By doing that, you can also boost the global influence of Canada, and so maybe even more people would want to come in than just those 60 million.
The other is to have less-skilled immigrants to go into construction, which they could probably be used for less money than current workers (with their demand for high paying jobs.) With cheaper labour, we could build the infrastructure we need at a lower cost than normal, while giving them a jumpstart on opportunity in the country

Yeah this is going terribly off topic.

I think the world would appreciate it.

lol Probably!

 

[wonderboy416]

Question about the new temporary restrictions.

They state they are for all flights to the US, what about connections THROUGH the US? Can those passengers still take their carry-ons? Or will they have to suffer for their entire journey due to some idiotic US knee-jerk reaction? Seems to me like transferring through Vancouver with a Canadian airline would be a much better option than San Fran or LA if heading overseas in the future just to avoid this foolishness.

 

[jn_12]

We'll just have to get used to fewer Americans traveling abroad and fewer people traveling to America.

I think the world can handle it.


.

Such ignorance. Ontario has a $23billion sector of the economy that this directly effects. Ya it's fantastic that Americans won't come here... tell that to the tourism industry.