News   Jul 12, 2024
 1.4K     0 
News   Jul 12, 2024
 1.1K     1 
News   Jul 12, 2024
 397     0 

'Absolute bedlam' on Pearson's busiest day

You can grow tired of the argument all you want, but it's still a valid piont. There's a big difference between a country giving up sovereignty to a collection of medium sized powers that offset each other, and to the most powerful superpower on the planet. You've never heard about the US demanding that we give up certain things because a common border has never been seriously discussed by our leaders. But monetary policy is one thing people have suggested be merged, especially before 9/11. As for the other policies, there's already pressure from Washington to change all kinds of our laws, from immigration to prison sentencing to drug laws. You really don't think that would get more intense if we opened up our borders? You think they'd make concessions for us like increasing gun control? The EU is a good system for Europe, but there are good reasons it hasn't happened anywhere else.

As rbt has already pointed out, the bedlam at Pearson would have been worse if our borders were open. I doubt very much that an open border would be good for the economy. It would make our economy even more tied to theirs, which would have made this recession even worse. We should be getting less reliant on the United States, not more, and that's exactly what's been happening the last few years.

The United States will never open up the border with Mexico. The differences between the two economies are simply too great. The only way that could possibly happen is if Mexico got a handle on its crime problem and developed its economy to the point where it's as rich as the US or Canada. That's not happening anytime soon.

Talk of a common dollar has nothing to do with a common border, as I already illustrated. One doesn't require the other and vice versa. Some countries are part of Schengen, but not part of the Euro currency (e.g. Switzerland, Denmark, Monaco, Czech, Norway, Estonia, Hungary, Poland) whereas others are part of the Euro currency, but not part of Schengen (e.g. Cyprus, Ireland). So bringing up monetary policy and common currency really doesn't affect the common border one way or the other.

Mexico is a different can of worms. But at least if Mexico was part of the common border, Canada would have a counterbalance on the other side of the US.

I don't see anything wrong with breaking down borders to movement and trade between the US and Canada. There's nothing stopping Canada from increasing trade with China and India as well. Who else would you rather we do business with, anyway? Burma? Liberia? Sudan?

There's also been talk of having free trade with Europe. I believe this should be pursued as quickly as possible. Hell, Canada should sign the Schengen agreement itself. Why do we need any border controls between Canada and Europe anyway? People should be able to live and work wherever the hell they want in the Western world.
 
Mexico is a different can of worms. But at least if Mexico was part of the common border, Canada would have a counterbalance on the other side of the US.

I don't see anything wrong with breaking down borders to movement and trade between the US and Canada. There's nothing stopping Canada from increasing trade with China and India as well. Who else would you rather we do business with, anyway? Burma? Liberia? Sudan?

There's also been talk of having free trade with Europe. I believe this should be pursued as quickly as possible. Hell, Canada should sign the Schengen agreement itself. Why do we need any border controls between Canada and Europe anyway? People should be able to live and work wherever the hell they want in the Western world.
This is totally the boat I'm grabbing a ride on. Canada definitely needs to get more trading partners and stop being an abnormally large growth clinging onto the US. The problem is that I don't think the US would even allow free borders with Canada, let alone the EU or Latin America. So we shouldn't dwell on that, and just take our new business elsewhere. There's a myriad of opportunities waiting for us, and so far we've been sitting on the front step.
 
The Americans will not allow free movement of people and goods across borders unless we adopt a lot of their policies. It's as simple as that.

We might not have to take on their currency, but there's no way they'll accept free movement of persons across the border without us taking on their immigration and entry control policies and standards.

The best that can be hoped for is a better deployment of screening technology to make ports of entry more efficient.

Also, awareness needs to be improved. There are many passengers who travel often enough to the US that don't bother getting a NEXUS card. People need to be made aware of the alternatives.
 
I'm going to be mighty pissed if I find myself en route to a country other than the US from Canada and I'm not allowed to use my mp3 player, netbook etc on the plane while staying seated for the last hour trying not to sh*t myself.

These security measures do nothing but punish law abiding citizens in order to prevent invisible terrorists from boarding planes.

It's worth pointing out that air travel, even with "terrorist" activity included is still the safest form of travel by far...
 
Why do we need any border controls between Canada and Europe anyway? People should be able to live and work wherever the hell they want in the Western world.

Why should anyone from a foreign nation be allowed to freely move within another foreign nation?
This idea that Europe is some sort of model the rest of the world should follow in all regards is stupid. Europe is Europe, Canada isn't.
 
Why should anyone from a foreign nation be allowed to freely move within another foreign nation?
This idea that Europe is some sort of model the rest of the world should follow in all regards is stupid. Europe is Europe, Canada isn't.

About a century ago, which is not so long by historic standards, people around the world were generally free to move anywhere they pleased, and passports and visas were not used to restrict movement. It's in this time that "new" countries like Canada, US, Australia received the most immigrants. World War 1 changed that. Hopefully we can go back to that situation within my lifetime.
 
Why should anyone from a foreign nation be allowed to freely move within another foreign nation?
This idea that Europe is some sort of model the rest of the world should follow in all regards is stupid. Europe is Europe, Canada isn't.

What exactly have tighter border controls accomplished anyway besides restricting freedoms?

Leaving out the whole terrorism angle, I see nothing wrong with just making "the West" one big Schengen area.

The fact that Europe does it doesn't automatically mean it's "stupid". Please provide reasons for claiming something is "stupid".

And why shouldn't people be allowed to move wherever they want? Should we be restricting people where they can live based on their birth/blood?

Just because you move around, doesn't affect your citizenship anyway. If you wanted to permanently move somewhere, you'd have to pay your taxes there etc.

It's the 21st century people. Borders should be disappearing, not getting more tightened up.
 
And consider the psychological angle. Al-Qaeda must be laughing right now. They've been jerking our psychological chains for years now, at a very low cost to them.

The real problem is that people have been conditioned to fear. Yellow alerts, prowlers in the bushes, creepy guys on the subway, Halloween razor-blade scares, date-rape scenarios, it goes on and on. With 24-hour news coverage. When we're in a constant state of unease and fear, we lose our judgement and ability to perceive what's really going on. When we're flinching from every snapping branch and rustle in the dark, how can we look around and evaluate what might really be a threat?

It's time to get the terrorists out of our minds.
 
I flew back from the US today and line ups for security check-ins were very long, with every 2nd person getting a full body scan and pat-down (myself included). Thankfully I wasn't flying into the US today, on the flight over the flight attendant mentioned that new security rules that they got this weekend with the 1 bag restriction and that flights bound for US, folks wont be allowed to access their carry-on items.

This is just an over-reaction as per usual. The carry-on is not the problem. The problem is that the security screeners need to add background checks as people walk through security. The person who screened that mofo should be fired from their job immediately.

I think this over-reaction will settle down after a few months. Its unfortunate that this happened on one of the most busy weekends for travelling.
 
Not sure where people get this sense of entitlement to move about in other people's countries as if it's some sort of inalienable right.



Why not, that's how it works now.

We are all citizens of the planet Earth. Of course I feel an inalienable right to go wherever on this planet I choose.
 
What exactly have tighter border controls accomplished anyway besides restricting freedoms?

Leaving out the whole terrorism angle, I see nothing wrong with just making "the West" one big Schengen area.

The fact that Europe does it doesn't automatically mean it's "stupid". Please provide reasons for claiming something is "stupid".

And why shouldn't people be allowed to move wherever they want? Should we be restricting people where they can live based on their birth/blood?

Just because you move around, doesn't affect your citizenship anyway. If you wanted to permanently move somewhere, you'd have to pay your taxes there etc.

It's the 21st century people. Borders should be disappearing, not getting more tightened up.

When it comes to North America, don't forget that Americans have one constitutionally guaranteed right that we do not - the right to bear arms. Opening up our borders with the US would mean giving up our gun control laws not to mention the fact that we'd have to commit to their wars on drugs and terror.

Switzerland is the only member of the Schengen Agreement that I can think of that has embraced the gun as much as the US. Even then, purchasing a gun in Switzerland is still much harder than in many US states. When Switzerland joined the Schengen Agreement, it was forced by its much larger neighbours to tighten gun control laws. Do you really think Canada has as much influence over the US as Germany alone does over Switzerland?

Then there's always the fear (justified or not) that complete freedom of movement between the US and Canada would result in a massive brain drain.

There's probably a few countries we could make Schengen-type agreements with without much hassle: parts of the Caribbean and parts of the Commonwealth, for example. However, for the time being, any agreement with the US would involve too many consessions on our part. Europe works because there is no superpower dictating terms or wielding too much power. The relationship between the US and Canada is too one-sided. It's the same reason why Russia will probably never join Schengen, and why so many people are hostile to Turkey joining (although, admittedly in both cases, there are many other reasons for not letting them in). Perhaps a better comparison: would Schengen be possible, and would the UK be included, had WWII not de-superpower-ized that continent?

About a century ago, which is not so long by historic standards, people around the world were generally free to move anywhere they pleased, and passports and visas were not used to restrict movement. It's in this time that "new" countries like Canada, US, Australia received the most immigrants. World War 1 changed that. Hopefully we can go back to that situation within my lifetime.

Don't forget the awful condition many if not most of those immigrants lived when they arrived here. Check out old photos of the Ward for a local example. A recent report (I forget by whom) stated that there are 60 million people around the world who would pick Canada as their first choice for immigration. We simply do not have the resources to triple our population instantly while ensuring the economic and physical wellbeing of those immigrants.

I think you're overstating how free this movement was. It was expensive and time consuming. At the same time, many millions of people around the world were unable to move due to serfdom, slavery, etc. Travel is much easier today and more people have the resources to afford it. And even a hundred years ago there were restrictions on immigration to Canada, the US, Australia, etc. Why else would the Komagata Maru get turned away? What about the head tax? Going back even further, why do you think no Protestants or Jews settled in New France? There have always been some restrictions.

There are brain drain concerns again here too. What would happen to China, India, the Philippines, etc. if their middle classes just up and left en masse for the developed world? Consider too what has been happening to local communities in the world's tropical paradises when they are flooded with wealthy North American/European ex-pats - what would happen if all the restrictions that so far have at least partially limited the devastating effects of ex-pat-driven rising land prices in some parts of the world suddenly disappeared?

I'm all for a borderless world eventually, but I don't think it's possible so long as huge economic/political/legal disparities exist between countries.
 
Practically speaking a borderless world may be impossible at the moment, but it's what she should strive for. We should be breaking down borders as much as possible. How else will Earth have a unified government which is a prerequisite for joining the United Federation of Planets?
 
We are all citizens of the planet Earth. Of course I feel an inalienable right to go wherever on this planet I choose.

I'd love nothing more for everyone to sign campfire songs, and do whatever they pleased.

It's a nice thought, a world government, but it's not something we're able to manage in our current state or in the foreseeable future. Having lived on the US/Can border for 20 years I don't see the current state of our crossings to be a problem.
 

Back
Top