401 "Highway of Heroes" and DVP to be "Route of Heroes"

[Admiral Beez]

I've already said this before with regards to the 416 to Ottawa highway, but it needs saying again. Renaming, in this case, the DVP the Veterans Memorial Parkway would in no way comemorate or celerbrate our war dead, as veterans are not war dead. Veterans are those that survived their war service, and does not apply to those who died during their service. Veteran is from the Latin word vetus, meaning "old", and in this case refers to old soldiers.

 

[Tewder]

That a military can be formed and used to justly defend that democracy is a given. There are principles for just war, and defence of one's culture and society from invasion and destruction are recognized are recognized as being a just cause for war (I'm really simplifying things here for the sake of brevity). Is that worthy of respect? Without a doubt..

... and that is basically what I mean to say. I think that many here may feel that celebrating those who do or have done this important service for our nation is somehow akin to the celebrating of militarism or to the celebrating of misguided government policy, but in fact in Canada we don't tend to honor/celebrate the missions themselves (though 1812, Vimy Ridge and the battles of WWII seem to be fairly unambiguous exceptions), rather those who died or who served in the missions, be they contentious ones or otherwise.

Again, I will have disagree with you here. To repeat: the actions of individual persons, the belief in reason and the rule of law, the careful clarification of those concepts, the continued exercise and exploration of these ideas, and civil institutions such as the courts and legislatures that administrate these activities, are all much more essential with respect to democracy and an open society. These things matter within a society; but they also matter beyond its borders...

...but I don't think we are really in disagreement. Again, I'm not arguing for militarism or the use of the military to spread or impose those ideas. My support for the military and those who serve is based on the notion of respect that you mention above, and the fact that a healthy democracy must have a military to defend it from challenges without. The issue, for me, is the muddling of those two concepts as somehow one and the same.

The examples you provide are telling. Poland is no longer under the control of a totalitarian government, nor are many other countries. A key motivation has been the idea of democracy and the myriad of linked notions and concepts that it represents to many people around the world. As a society, China is slowly opening up. Over time, this will continue to have an immense impact on that country and its people. Myanmar is a nation where there is an effort underway to establish a democracy - one being thwarted by a military dictatorship. Pakistan is gradually shifting back towards democratic rule, and away from military control. There are many other slow and painful examples of emerging democracies....

Once again, I don't disagree with you about the importance of ideas and the spread of principles, this is how democracy takes hold and grows. Still, we cannot be too cavalier about this either. Democracy is a relatively new idea, and one that really only emerged 'organically' in the western world. The rise and spread of democratic ideas has been a very bloody process, and the history of the 19th and 20th centuries in the west is essentially the history of the struggle to defend these ideas and preserve them in the face of those forces that would oppress them (Napoleonic France, the rise of communism, the spread of fascism etc). Even the Cold War was essentially a military showdown or arms race, a game of chicken that both sides had to be willing and able to wage.

I believe you mean the war of 1812. There was no Canada as we know it then; it was part of the British Empire. The Americans had, shall we say, issues. The Canada of that period was, to a very significant degree, being governed overseas. The Americans were governing themselves. They were a fledgling democracy then.

Yes, but the seeds of a Canadian identity and nation were sown in those early days. If the USA had been successful in the pursuit of its 'manifest destiny' the English empire in N. America would have collapsed earlier and in a different way, and Canada would never have emerged as a nation.

So our way of life was threatened by the Americans. And then our way of life was protected by Americans. Which one is it exactly? And then we should be aware that Canada could be invaded by the Americans?

It is complicated, no doubt. One might say that the Canadian way of life has always been threatened by the USA, to one degree or another and for various reasons. The error would be to think that things always stay the same which isn't true: At one time the States was our invader. For many years after they have been our trade partner and a mutual 'entente cordiale' has existed between us as supported by our treaties and alliances, and it was this context which afforded Canada an enormous amount of US protection. Who knows what will happen next? As Canada grows in importance our differences in policy, our differing allegiences and national interests will no doubt pose challenges to this relationship.

Common respect for common civil society is what keeps our borders open. Beyond this, I'm not too sure what point are you trying to make here. Are you suggesting we arm ourselves based on a paranoia that the United States will invade us? They don't see us as a threat, so why would they invade us? Unsound fears are not reasonable ways to structure international policy. Besides, many of us don't operate in terms of raw territoriality anymore.

On the contrary, as we have witnessed over the past 5 or so years Washington has been extremely concerned about the open border with Canada, about Canada's immigration policies, and Canada's unwillingness to support them as an ally in their foreign policy. Canada has been reneging on the very alliances and agreements that has kept the relationship with the US benign to begin with. This is not a crime, it is Canada's right to pursue its own interests and beliefs, but we have to understand that there are costs or repercussions to doing this, and that we are able to do so with far more autonomy and integrity when we are self-reliant in every way. This is why I feel the role of our military is important.

 

[Hydrogen]

All an interesting debate Tewder, but I believe we are veering off the topic of renaming a highway. That being said, while I take exception to this specific landmark being renamed, as well as the approach in doing so, I have no issue with public efforts to create actual monuments for proper commemoration, or with monuments that can also serve to inform. I don't think renaming highways, or stretches of roadway, will do any justice to that end.

 

[Tewder]

That's fair Hydrogen, and a respectful discussion of the issue is always a pleasure, and an important one at that.

 

[MisterF]

Despotism, imperialism and religious fundamentalism - realities that have dominated history and that still characterize vast regions of the world - are also fairly "inimical to the long term health and vigor of democratic institutions", by the way.

This might have already been replied to, but I still want to get one thing straight - it's not the military that protects us from despotism and religious fundamentalism. It's our democratically elected civilian government that does that. It employs, enables, and pays for the military. In Canada, the military isn't the government, it's a tool of the government.

As you say, the military is the protector of our democracy (and our national interests) from external challenges. This is not only 'pie in the sky' historicist musings of the War of 1812, but consider what is happening along Canada's arctic coast as global warming continues to free the shipping lanes, the area becoming of far more strategic, economic and political interest to many other nations...

The military defends our territory because the government makes it possible. It's helpless to defend our arctic coast without a mandate from the government.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

As you say, the military is there to defend our freedom. This is worthy of commemorating, imo. You have every right to question how our government uses its military in our name, but do not question the people who do what you or I are not willing to do, giving you the freedom and luxury to sit at your computer and vent your abhorance at a request made to change a road name.

They volunteered to defend the freedom of opium producers, not the freedom of Canadians...we should call it the Highway of Heroin.

 

[duper]

"This requires a simple 'We'll look into it' or 'No, we're not interested.' But to have no response at all? It is a slap in the face. It is terribly discourteous," said Marv Rich, a retired colonel and president of the Fort York legion.

I'm not sure why no response to the many MANY letters received at city hall is considered a slap in the face.

 

[wyliepoon]

The Gazette

Link to article

The road to remembrance
The 20 renamed. Veterans' Memorial Highway runs from Ontario to Montreal

CHERYL CORNACCHIA
The Gazette

Wednesday, November 07, 2007


Quebec joined other provinces yesterday when it renamed part of a highway to honour Canada's soldiers, past and present.

The Veterans' Memorial Highway - in French, the Autoroute du Souvenir - is the new name of a 50-kilometre stretch of Highway 20 from the Turcot Interchange in Montreal to Rivière Beaudette, near the Ontario border.

At a ceremony yesterday, Premier Jean Charest told veterans, several from the Second World War, that renaming the highway was a "modest gesture" but one that will ensure Quebecers remember the sacrifices made by Canada's military personnel, including those soldiers now serving in Afghanistan.

This summer, the Ontario government renamed a stretch of Highway 401, from Trenton to Toronto, Highway of Heroes in remembrance of Canada's fallen soldiers. Alberta, Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia have renamed roads Veterans' Memorial Highway.

The section of Highway 20 renamed in honour of Canadian soldiers is an entry point to the province and is travelled daily by thousand of motorists, especially across the West Island.

Liberal MNA Geoff Kelley, whose riding of Jacques Cartier encompasses much of the newly named section of road, said the new name and the portion of highway chosen couldn't be more appropriate.

Kelley noted that one doesn't have to go far off Highway 20, especially in the West Island, to see remnants of Canada's wartime past. They range from the National Field of Honour, located in Pointe Claire, the final resting place of thousands of Canadian soldiers, to the postwar houses built in Lachine, Dorval and Pointe Claire for returning Second World War veterans.

Then there's Ste. Anne's Hospital in Ste. Anne de Bellevue, the last federally funded hospital for veterans and now a renowned centre for Alzheimer's care and post-traumatic stress disorder.

Jean-Robert Pépin, vice-president of the Royal Canadian Legion's Quebec Command, commended the provincial government for granting the name change, which he said the Legion requested in 2005.

Mike Angrove, president of Churchill Branch 91 of the Royal Canadian Legion in Ste. Anne de Bellevue, said he couldn't think of a better way to commemorate the men and women who have served Canada.

Quebecers saluted and waved flags from Highway 20 overpasses on the West Island when the body of Pte. Simon Longtin, 23, of Longueuil, returned home this summer for burial, he said.

Longtin, a member of the 3rd Battalion, Royal 22nd Regiment, based out of Valcartier, was killed in Afghanistan in August.

Motorists using the route will see four large green road signs reading Autoroute du Souvenir and emblazoned with a large red poppy.

Travelling west, the new signs can be seen at Angrignon Blvd. and at Highway 540 in Vaudreuil-Dorion. On the eastbound side of the highway, the signs are at Rivière Beaudette and at the overpass in Ste. Anne de Bellevue.

 

[ShonTron]

Miller caved and now the Don Valley Parkway will be given the dual name of ick, "Route of Heroes"

So what happens when the now under-construction Coroner's Complex moves to Downsview. Does the Keele-401 interchange become "the Off-Ramp of Heroes"?

I'm not impressed by additional jingoistic fluff. I don't buy the presumption that every Canadian soldier who dies overseas is automatically some sort of hero, though I am sure there are some. It waters down the meaning of that word.

 

[ShonTron]

Oh, and not to single out "Heroes", I'm still very angry about the city renaming a part of Jarvis for some dead billionaire. Johnny Lombardi and Moses Znaimer got honourary namings of sections of major routes near their old media outlets, and this is quite appropriate for those two imaginative and creative media owners. That wasn't good enough for Ted Rogers though.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

i think google made a mistake:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...746,-79.490719&spn=0.057441,0.175781&t=h&z=13

does highway of heroes go that far into the west end?

 

[Dan416]

Google also made a mistake and called the 403 in Mississauga the Chedoke Expressway (FYI It's not).

 

[W. K. Lis]

What happens when the final destination, the Coroner's office, is moved to the new Forensic Services and Coroner’s Complex, just started construction at the south-west section of Wilson and Keele. It is expected to be completed in 2012. Will a short section of roadway to the complex get the new name?

See this link for more information on the new Forensic Services and Coroner’s Complex.

 

[EnviroTO]

I think it is stupid to name any highway the highway of heros. First of all it assumes that they were heroic or that everyone shares the same definition. If every fallen soldier is a hero what not give every soldier the Victoria Cross? A proper memorial would be to name a street after the fallen soldier and a plaque to tell people about who they were as people, not to have a nameless memorial highway. Who was carried down the highway of heros? Let us never forget him or her whoever they were?? A fallen soldier deserves our respect not to be thrown under a "hero" categorization which in the end if over used means nothing.

 

[bleeepbluuup]

Gah, more useless signage cluttering up the roadways. They should find something nameless and call that a Whatever of Heroes; stop messing with roads that already have names.