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2022 43rd Ontario general election (June 2, 2022)

adma said:
Even if they technically *were*, relative to '18, the bigger "losers" in terms of seats and vote share, given the relative expectations t/w the end there still seems something awfully mansplainy about those who really want to drive the "Horwath was the bigger loser than Del Duca" part. Sort of like, "if you, Andrea, didn't think your stinking incumbents were so special that they *all* needed to be reelected, we, the Liberals, would have Official Party Status and a decent caucus by now. But nooo, you just *hadda* make a point for them; and now we're *both* in the same boat, losers to Doug The Drug Thug, bla bla etc etc"
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I’ve always felt the complaints about Horwwth were a bit misogynistic. “Shrill” as a critique seemed to come up a lot.
 
zang said:
I’ve always felt the complaints about Horwwth were a bit misogynistic. “Shrill” as a critique seemed to come up a lot.
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There is certainly an element of that, same as with Wynne. But it has been something like four elections, and you need a new voice at some point.
 
evandyk said:
There is certainly an element of that, same as with Wynne. But it has been something like four elections, and you need a new voice at some point.
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Yeah, but the way a lot of people were talking about that "something like four elections", it's like she was more of a stubborn, immovable force than she actually was. In the end, her departure had very little of the "humiliation" about it, unlike that of Del Duca--and it even had that fringe benefit of her emerging with more seats than perhaps even she might have been expecting.

And when it comes to her "trying over and over, but never winning": you have to remember that back when she assumed the leadership, the notion of the ONDP being in contention for power *at all* would have gotten you laughed out of the room, and even making it to Official Opposition seemed a tall order back when Howard Hampton was racking up Del Duca-esque seat totals.

And when it comes to "shrill": lest we forget...

 
One thing that I think hurt Del Duca very bad was the timing of his leadership win. He won one week before the COVID shutdown in mid-March 2020.

People have been distracted by COVID and Del Duca was never able to get much media attention to build his profile.
 
evandyk said:
There is certainly an element of that, same as with Wynne. But it has been something like four elections, and you need a new voice at some point.
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This was the first election under her term where the NDP didn’t have a net gain of seats over the previous election.

Between taking over leadership in 2009 to the 2018 election, she quadrupled the total number of seats they had.

You think she should’ve been turfed before the 2022 election?! If a CEO quadrupled a company’s profit over 9 years, shareholders would be tripping over themselves to drown that CEO with mega yacht-level bonuses.

She did well for her party up until this last election. There was no reason for her to leave that doesn’t fall under unrealistic (and likely sexist) expectations.
 
zang said:
This was the first election under her term where the NDP didn’t have a net gain of seats over the previous election.

Between taking over leadership in 2009 to the 2018 election, she quadrupled the total number of seats they had.

You think she should’ve been turfed before the 2022 election?! If a CEO quadrupled a company’s profit over 9 years, shareholders would be tripping over themselves to drown that CEO with mega yacht-level bonuses.

She did well for her party up until this last election. There was no reason for her to leave that doesn’t fall under unrealistic (and likely sexist) expectations.
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Analogies to business for politics and government economics always wind up very stretched and this one isn't very different.

A CEO would get not get that bonus for "quadrupling profit"; the metric that matters is something called "return on equity", which is basically a measure of what has been received back for shareholders out of what went was invested.
All those party member fees, election donations, and volunteer hours under Horwath and the end result is they still have no power, same as when she started. The NDP's return on equity has been zero under Horwath. She got them nothing that ultimately matters. Even if you choose something more intangible, like influence, I see nothing there either. No one in the PC's has been considering Andrea Horwath's opinion when they draft policy and legislation out of fear she would object. They didn't think about her at all. That says everything you need to know.
 
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Jonny5 said:
Analogies to business for politics and government economics always wind up very stretched and this one isn't very different.
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You're really going to disassemble a quick analogy?
Jonny5 said:
Even it you want to go with something more intangible, like influence, I see nothing there either. No one in the PC's has been thinking about what Andrea Horwath thinks when they draft policy out of fear she would object.
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Not sure why Doug Ford would ever have complained about her then, or bothered to mention her in election messaging.

If representational government is all-or-nothing to you, then it's not representational government. It's a dictatorship wrapped in theatrics. While our parties severely need to take notes from other multi-party countries that regularly form coalition governments, growth in the party is not free of value, or something to be dismissed.
 
I just checked the results - Spadina Fort York had 101,102 registered voters, 2 polls left to report - total votes cast 42,029.
 
Jonny5 said:
No one in the PC's has been considering Andrea Horwath's opinion when they draft policy and legislation out of fear she would object. They didn't think about her at all. That says everything you need to know.
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As I've suggested before, that might say just as much, if not more, about Doug Ford's manner of governance. "I won, you lost, so there, nyaaah".
 
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zang said:
People feel they can't make change voting against Ford, and if they were truly happy they'd have cast votes for him. Voter apathy isn't happiness with current government, it's hopelessness.
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Why do they feel this way?

I'm sure there are voters who feel hopeless. I also think there are people who were fine with this government continuing on for another four years.

Ultimately the situation will be hopeless if people don't exercise their right to vote.
 
syn said:
Why do they feel this way?

I'm sure there are voters who feel hopeless. I also think there are people who were fine with this government continuing on for another four years.

Ultimately the situation will be hopeless if people don't exercise their right to vote.
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It's beyond hopeless -consider the largest city in the country with a less than 30% voter turn out. For such a large city we have very little political influence.
 
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