2018 Provincial Election Transit Promises

[Cobra]

Taking a page from Patrick Brown, Liberals also promise to "begin discussions with the City of Toronto to determine whether Provincial ownership of TTC subway lines could provide better transit services."

-Ben Spurr

 

[Cobra]

Ontario budget vows to slash GO Transit fares
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp...s-go-transit-fares/?__twitter_impression=true

The Ontario Liberals are promising to slash the GO Transit fare to $3 for all journeys within Toronto, as well as for short trips anywhere on the network, while opening the door to uploading the city’s subway system.

A Ford government would “close the loop” with an extension of the Sheppard subway and push for a more expensive version of the Scarborough subway, with two additional stops, without specifying how this would be paid for.

In her own response to the budget, NDP Leader Andrea Horwath reiterated her party’s promise to restore provincial funding for half of local transit operating costs, which would mean hundreds of millions annually for the TTC.

Under the terms of the new fare plan, any GO Transit trip within the city of Toronto would cost $3 for people using a Presto fare-card, as would trips shorter than 10 kilometres anywhere on the GO network. This is down from a current base GO fare of more than $5 and aligns it with the cost to ride the TTC.

 

[Northern Light]

Also from the budget, cross-regional fares in the GTA to all get the $1.50 discount when you cross onto a second system.

 

[steveintoronto]

The Ontario Liberals are promising to slash the GO Transit fare to $3 for all journeys within Toronto, as well as for short trips anywhere on the network, while opening the door to uploading the city’s subway system.

That would be profound, not just in savings to riders, but in terms of better integration in almost every respect.

What should be built as subways will be, and what should be built as regional transit should also be. It would radically alter projects like the Relief Line, their prime purpose/market, and how they are built and run.

This sounds like the first major proposal that could be a vote changer, it makes so much sense to everyone concerned....save for those who still feel the TTC can 'run things' better than Metrolinx when it comes to inter-regional transit, which is what the subways have become, and not at all best practice to doing so by any means.

All trunk lines that cross municipal borders should be considered under Metrolinx control, with only a few exceptions.

This would include LRTs, busways and any other inter-regional spine.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Taking a page from Patrick Brown, Liberals also promise to "begin discussions with the City of Toronto to determine whether Provincial ownership of TTC subway lines could provide better transit services."

-Ben Spurr

They should take the entire TTC. Get the city out of it.

 

[MisterF]

Reports on Twitter that Ford pledges to restore the 3 stop SSE and close the Sheppard loop, ie extend the Sheppard subway westward

Reading between the lines: all the subway funding would get eaten by these two lines. No DRL because in the words of his immortal brother, "the downtown people have enough subways already". The expansion of subways in the suburbs at the expense of where they're actually needed continues unabated.

It would radically alter projects like the Relief Line

Not really, since fare integration has been planned all along, and the regional transportation plan was developed with that in mind. It's just a question of what form it will take.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Reports on Twitter that Ford pledges to restore the 3 stop SSE and close the Sheppard loop, ie extend the Sheppard subway westward

Any word on sheppard east?

Reading between the lines: all the subway funding would get eaten by these two lines. No DRL because in the words of his immortal brother, "the downtown people have enough subways already". The expansion of subways in the suburbs at the expense of where they're actually needed continues unabated.


Not really, since fare integration has been planned all along, and the regional transportation plan was developed with that in mind. It's just a question of what form it will take.

He could and should find seperate funding for this.

 

[steveintoronto]

They should take the entire TTC. Get the city out of it.

I'm tempted to agree, but there is a balance between the needs of *local transport* and 'regional'. Very few uploads of heavy rail systems (the term Light Rail is a misnomer in many respects) in cities that have successfully done this have taken the local transit with it. There's a case for the locals to subsidize or not what they want in terms of bus and streetcar service. But like highways, once it crosses municipal boundaries, it becomes a county or provincial responsibility, in effect if not in fact. And considering that QP is paying the bulk of the costs, it stands to reason that the collective tax base paying that should have a say in how it's apportioned.

The expansion of subways in the suburbs at the expense of where they're actually needed continues unabated.

And that's exactly the point. They're lost their immediate raison d'etre. But that comes down to funding, and like it or not, the City contributes dick to those costs, and yet wants to call the shots. Unless Tory et compagnes are willing to raise the tax base (and Ford has his own thumb up you know where on this), the status quo is untenable.

Addendum: In a number of systems, and Cdns aren't ready for this, but debacles like the King Street Project (don't kid yourselves folks, it's in trouble, it's not been financed, and doomed to fail), show that PPP models should be looked at. They may not be appropriate, a lot depends on the deal for all concerned, but the TTC has not been offering great returns per taxpayer investment of late. VIA is, Metrolinx is, time for the TTC, in whatever form is left.

So I challenge Ford (Mr. "Businessman" )(Gee, thanks Dad) to raise that subject! For once he might actually have to come up with a...wait for it...a *plan*...something a bit more meaningful than ferris wheels...

I have mixed feelings on P3, the Devil's in the details, London UK can be an excellent example for both stunning successes and dreadful fails.

It's time to start learning, but of course, Ford has all the answers already. Daddy bought them for him...Time for "Business Boy" to put his mouth where the dope is.

 

[torontologist]

All true, and there is the liability issue if the re-user has the rope break because it was a cheap, one-time-only grade product in the first place. Although, companies do often have profitable small-scale asset reclamation and disposal functions to squeeze some bucks out of the dumpster, if only to cut the volume and curb the dumping fees.

My point was, the passers-by I saw (who were all of modest means) all salivated at what they could use the rope for. Their conclusion (rightly or wrongly) was that ML wastes a lot of money in its projects. One guy (who seemed a little more knowledgeable) even quoted me per-hour charges for all of the big machinery that was parked on site and not being used that day. He may have been off base in his dollar figures, and the equipment utilization might be good, but this is the stuff that gives Ford Nation its leverage. It’s all face-value rhetoric, but it sells.

- Paul

If you want to know what makes Metrolinx projects so expensive, it's not rope or waste, it's union regulations that force them to use double the necessary amount of workers on any given project.

 

[APTA-2048]

Ontario budget vows to slash GO Transit fares
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp...s-go-transit-fares/?__twitter_impression=true

The Ontario Liberals are promising to slash the GO Transit fare to $3 for all journeys within Toronto, as well as for short trips anywhere on the network, while opening the door to uploading the city’s subway system.

A Ford government would “close the loop” with an extension of the Sheppard subway and push for a more expensive version of the Scarborough subway, with two additional stops, without specifying how this would be paid for.

In her own response to the budget, NDP Leader Andrea Horwath reiterated her party’s promise to restore provincial funding for half of local transit operating costs, which would mean hundreds of millions annually for the TTC.

Under the terms of the new fare plan, any GO Transit trip within the city of Toronto would cost $3 for people using a Presto fare-card, as would trips shorter than 10 kilometres anywhere on the GO network. This is down from a current base GO fare of more than $5 and aligns it with the cost to ride the TTC.

Well that's it. I'm convinced all three parties know f_ck-all about what to do with transit in the province.

 

[Hopkins123]

Reading between the lines: all the subway funding would get eaten by these two lines. No DRL because in the words of his immortal brother, "the downtown people have enough subways already". The expansion of subways in the suburbs at the expense of where they're actually needed continues unabated.


Not really, since fare integration has been planned all along, and the regional transportation plan was developed with that in mind. It's just a question of what form it will take.

DRL as it's conceptualized now is pretty flawed though. And a beefed up Sheppard Subway could do away with the need for a Finch West LRT, saving between $1.2-$1.5 billion instantly.

We can pick our battles. Leaving Sheppard as a permanent stubway is a wasted opportunity. The dream of getting from Dufferin to McCowan in under 30 minutes via Sheppard is mighty appealing to many potential voters. You may not see it nor agree with that course of action but I would be mightily satisfied if Sheppard + SSE were up and running by 2025. It's what voters at the door are telling the PCs and these same constituents view the Liberals as dishonest and untrustworthy on the file.

 

[44 North]

Reports on Twitter that Ford pledges to restore the 3 stop SSE and close the Sheppard loop, ie extend the Sheppard subway westward

Are we sure he meant west, and not 'closing the loop' on the east? Both close a proverbial loop, but going east seems more up Ford's alley and is the logical/historical direction.

 

[OneCity]

Are we sure he meant west, and not 'closing the loop' on the east? Both close a proverbial loop, but going east seems more up Ford's alley and is the logical/historical direction.

Eastern loop with DRL short was the previous plan.

Also had Eglinton Crosstown to Kennedy fully tunneled in that plan which will no longer be an option. As Brown previously hinted this will likely be dumped onto the City extend further as the Eglinton East LRT if they choose with the current SSE levy.

 

[MisterF]

If you want to know what makes Metrolinx projects so expensive, it's not rope or waste, it's union regulations that force them to use double the necessary amount of workers on any given project.

Unions exist pretty much everywhere, including cities and transit systems that build transit for less money than we do.

DRL as it's conceptualized now is pretty flawed though. And a beefed up Sheppard Subway could do away with the need for a Finch West LRT, saving between $1.2-$1.5 billion instantly.

The DRL would attract more riders by far, relieve more of the transit system, and perform better financially than any other subway line or extension. In its currently proposed form (more or less) it was first planned back in the 1960s, and as a streetcar subway even farther back than that. All three lines were needed for the system to function properly. The fact that the third line was never built is why Line 1 crowding is so bad and the system has never functioned as intended. Line 5 will make crowding even worse, as would an extended Line 4. The DRL is far and away the most important and necessary subway line in the city. It's not even close.

I'm not sure how an extended Sheppard line could be presented as a cost saving measure. Building an underground subway instead of a surface LRT is a cost escalation, not a savings.

We can pick our battles. Leaving Sheppard as a permanent stubway is a wasted opportunity. The dream of getting from Dufferin to McCowan in under 30 minutes via Sheppard is mighty appealing to many potential voters. You may not see it nor agree with that course of action but I would be mightily satisfied if Sheppard + SSE were up and running by 2025. It's what voters at the door are telling the PCs and these same constituents view the Liberals as dishonest and untrustworthy on the file.

Yes, we can pick our battles. Let's pick the battles that result in the largest benefits to the system and the city. The trip you describe along Sheppard might be appealing, but the DRL is much more than that. Sheppard is a nice-to-have. DRL is an absolute necessity.

If dishonesty is a reason for disliking the Liberals then you should dislike the PCs even more. Doug Ford is as dishonest as they come.

 

[torontologist]

Unions exist pretty much everywhere, including cities and transit systems that build transit for less money than we do.

Yes, but they have different regulations. I couldn't find an article with the Canadian context, but our situation is similar to the American one. The cost of everything in Europe is much higher, but not subways. Why? Because unions in the USA (and Canada) require 4 times as many personnel on site. https://www.citylab.com/transportat...pensive-to-build-urban-rail-in-the-us/551408/

Metrolinx isn't wasteful. Unions are, as is the former Minister in charge who pushed for planners to cook the books and justify 2 unnecessary RER stops in his riding in Vaughan.