2018 Provincial Election Transit Promises

[BurlOak]

If Wynne wins, will be interesting to see what she pushes. I think not advancing RER was a major political blunder on the part of the Liberals. And if they survive 2019 and don't deliver RER in 2023, they're toast then for sure.

No - if they don't deliver in 2023 then we will give them one last chance and then their toast.
If they don't deliver by 2027 then we will give them one absolutely last chance and then their toast.
If they don't deliver by 2031 then we will give them one absolutely, I promise, last chance and then their toast.

 

[Hopkins123]

Right, so the Tories built the Spadina extension and the Liberals are dead against SSE. Not that I think either project makes any sense. But you know, facts sometimes matter.

Most of the existing subway network was built under PC governments though. They put money where their mouth is. Taking 14 years (2004-2017) to complete TYSSE is not something I'd want to see emulated. The only good that may come of the Liberals' minutea approach is that there may still be time to alter the plans for the better.

 

[Hopkins123]

No - if they don't deliver in 2023 then we will give them one last chance and then their toast.
If they don't deliver by 2027 then we will give them one absolutely last chance and then their toast.
If they don't deliver by 2031 then we will give them one absolutely, I promise, last chance and then their toast.

Status quo will get us nowhere, except a lot of disappointment and missed opportunities. The funding commitment should be ongoing and not a bone just thrown out during an election campaign. Liberals have been toying with lives for awhile now with their empty promises. We can do better indeed.

 

[Hopkins123]

I don't know why people think the Cons have such a good record of building transit, what projects do they have to show for themselves.

- All of the subway/RT system sans Downsview (NDP) and TYSSE (Liberals)
- Gardiner Expressway

Most big ticket infrastructure projects in the province were built during the golden age of PC rule.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Does this mean that the Lawrence stop is being added back?

Ford would be entering office on a $6 Billion deficit of his own creation, and his spending will be restricted by a pledge to lower taxes . I wouldn’t count on extra transit spending. People on this forum tend to think that the money for this stuff comes from nowhere.

 

[Admiral Beez]

If Ford becomes Premier, I wonder how soon the DRL would get started?

Why would Ford be inclined to expedite a subway for downtown? He’s a suburban-focused guy. I’d see him expand subways in the fringes of the city, like connecting the Downsview Line to the Scarborough extension, etc.

 

[crs1026]

If Wynne wins, will be interesting to see what she pushes. I think not advancing RER was a major political blunder on the part of the Liberals. And if they survive 2019 and don't deliver RER in 2023, they're toast then for sure.

Wynne was only one election from pulling a Bob Rae and throttling back her spending. Not by ideology, but by necessity... and she's just slippery enough to have made the reversal without the slightest regret. With Ford leading the PC's, that's now a hypothetical.

My bet is that Doug does win the election, based on a) the area beyond Toronto taking the populist tack and b) the Libs and the NDP splitting the centrist/liberal vote in enough 'pink' ridings to give Ford the edge.

What PC's did in the past is no measure of what Ford will do. His politics are different. He will encourage the 905 to remain auto dependent (and likely encourage further in this direction). For transit, he will allow enough growth to GO to make the 905 feel it's being supported. He will be brutal with the 416 (it's his old turf, after all). Overall he will impose economies - transit subsidies will face across the board cuts and then growth below the rate of inflation. He owes Tory nothing, and now whatever support Tory has is not a concern to him.

My fear is not so much that RER is dead - that seems certain - but that GO will not be able to maintain SOGR.

- Paul

 

[Admiral Beez]

In the unlikely event there are enough bigots in the province to make Drug Ford premier,

Ah, the now well trod basket of deplorables position. If you have any sense you’d stear clear of promoting that POV, as you’ll only strengthen the PC camp. Just because someone doesn’t share your political or social leanings, doesn’t make them bigots.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket_of_deplorables

But I’d forgotten, for years now you’ve wantonly thrown the bigotry accusation and label around, 80 instances and counting now....

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/search/899754/?q=Bigots&t=post&o=date&c[user][0]=882&c[node]=135+5+8+4+6993+6983+6988+6992+6989+6994+6990+6995+9+6+24+6981+12+20+7+13+31+14+38+35+32+33+34+36+21+27+46+45+22+23+40+41+10+26+11+29+16+17+28+37+253+18

 

[44 North]

Most big ticket infrastructure projects in the province were built during the golden age of PC rule.

Wonder how "golden" the PCs can be with a Ford. My guess is not very. Tho wouldn't rule out a crumpled $20 bill age.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

- All of the subway/RT system sans Downsview (NDP) and TYSSE (Liberals)
- Gardiner Expressway

Most big ticket infrastructure projects in the province were built during the golden age of PC rule.

Wonder how "golden" the PCs can be with a Ford. My guess is not very. Tho wouldn't rule out a crumpled $20 bill age.

The PC party of the 1970s shares little more than a name with the PC party of today.

 

[kEiThZ]

No - if they don't deliver in 2023 then we will give them one last chance and then their toast.
If they don't deliver by 2027 then we will give them one absolutely last chance and then their toast.
If they don't deliver by 2031 then we will give them one absolutely, I promise, last chance and then their toast.

My thesis is that traffic is going to be bad enough in 4 years and the GO Trains so crowded that any government who doesn't make some improvements here will lose the 905.

Why would Ford be inclined to expedite a subway for downtown? He’s a suburban-focused guy. I’d see him expand subways in the fringes of the city, like connecting the Downsview Line to the Scarborough extension, etc.

I don't see it either. There's no love lost between the downtowners and Ford and his base. I really don't get why people think his love of subways translates into the DRL. There's also crass political considerations. Why build something for people who will absolutely never vote for you?

Wynne was only one election from pulling a Bob Rae and throttling back her spending. Not by ideology, but by necessity... and she's just slippery enough to have made the reversal without the slightest regret. With Ford leading the PC's, that's now a hypothetical.

My bet is that Doug does win the election, based on a) the area beyond Toronto taking the populist tack and b) the Libs and the NDP splitting the centrist/liberal vote in enough 'pink' ridings to give Ford the edge.

What PC's did in the past is no measure of what Ford will do. His politics are different. He will encourage the 905 to remain auto dependent (and likely encourage further in this direction). For transit, he will allow enough growth to GO to make the 905 feel it's being supported. He will be brutal with the 416 (it's his old turf, after all). Overall he will impose economies - transit subsidies will face across the board cuts and then growth below the rate of inflation. He owes Tory nothing, and now whatever support Tory has is not a concern to him.

My fear is not so much that RER is dead - that seems certain - but that GO will not be able to maintain SOGR.

- Paul

I thing they have to so something in the GTA. The highways are jammed. The trains are packed.

So the question becomes what's the least they can get away with that will make a solid difference and stave off public anger. The only one project I can think of is GO RER. None of the suburban LRTs come close to delivering enough relief and votes.

It may not end up as RER as we envision it. Or even close it. But I don't think there's a way to avoid GO investment.

 

[JSF-1]

The PC party of the 1970s shares little more than a name with the PC party of today.

This is correct. We have a term for the Conservatives of that age; we call them "Red Tories". The Conservatives of today are anything but; the Conservatives of today are Neo-Cons who believe scorched earth budgeting is fiscally responsible.

 

[crs1026]

I thing they have to so something in the GTA. The highways are jammed. The trains are packed.

So the question becomes what's the least they can get away with that will make a solid difference and stave off public anger. The only one project I can think of is GO RER. None of the suburban LRTs come close to delivering enough relief and votes.

It may not end up as RER as we envision it. Or even close it. But I don't think there's a way to avoid GO investment.

My read into the sudden fascination with Hydrail is not a sincere interest in advancing new tech.....but rather evidence that the Liberals realised they cannot keep spending, and started looking for things to throw overboard. So RER was likely dead anyways. As is HSR.

I can see Ford continuing with dieselised, perhaps half hourly off peak service on the existing network with the already committed expansions continuing. No wires, no EMU's. And no new stations, certainly not the palaces that ML is designing.

That gets me back to P3. Will Ford look on the RER P3 pitch as benign? It's not his ticket, in the sense that the vendor will be building margin, risk insurance, and contingencies into the price that cannot be squeezed out as "gravy". But so long as there is no debt on the Provincial books.... he may be as pragmatic as any other political stripe. The question will be what the cost of RER is versus its revenue. Ford will want the non-revenue portion (ie the taxpayer subsidy) to be cut over time. That can't happen with a P3 contract, where the price has already been agreed to. I foresee a decade of squeezing GO in the same way that TTC has been squeezed over the last decade. ML is fat, and a little gravysqueezing may be a good thing....but will it go too far? I'm not optimistic. Ford won't change his spots on that from his Toronto Council days.

- Paul

 

[Neutrino]

Ah, the now well trod basket of deplorables position. If you have any sense you’d stear clear of promoting that POV, as you’ll only strengthen the PC camp. Just because someone doesn’t share your political or social leanings, doesn’t make them bigots.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket_of_deplorables

But I’d forgotten, for years now you’ve wantonly thrown the bigotry accusation and label around, 80 instances and counting now....

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/search/899754/?q=Bigots&t=post&o=date&c[user][0]=882&c[node]=135+5+8+4+6993+6983+6988+6992+6989+6994+6990+6995+9+6+24+6981+12+20+7+13+31+14+38+35+32+33+34+36+21+27+46+45+22+23+40+41+10+26+11+29+16+17+28+37+253+18

And that's exactly what I meant when I said leftists have made words like racism (and bigotry) utterly meaningless.

 

[BurlOak]

The PC party of the 1970s shares little more than a name with the PC party of today.

And the current Liberal party is nothing like the Mitchell Hepburn government of the 1930 - the last Liberal government that was above average.