W. K. Lis
Superstar
...and the New Democratic Party. (They really should drop the "New" from their name.)
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2018 Provincial Election Transit Promises
- Thread starter innsertnamehere
- Start date
...and the New Democratic Party. (They really should drop the "New" from their name.)
Hopkins123
Senior Member
The Liberals will promise the moon, get reelected, then proceed to do nothing for another four years.
Rainforest
Senior Member
The Liberals made a lot of progress on transit in the last 4 years, actually even more than that. We have TYSSE about to open, improved GO service, Eglinton LRT under construction, Finch West construction about to be tendered, and SSE in the design phase.
syn
Senior Member
Everyone hints at things, but will he do what he says he will? If he's only hinting at it then I can see it falling by the wayside.
This is light years ahead of where the PC Party has been in recent elections as far as the transit file is concerned. It's still vague enough that you have to question if they're serious about it.
The Liberals probably deserve more credit - they've actually accomplished quite a lot relative to previous governments.
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crs1026
Superstar
If the Liberals had simply got done what they have got done, without promising anything more, I would be happy. There are indeed many shovels in the ground. The problem is all the stuff they promised that never got started.
I don't think we are asking too much for governments to say what they are going to do, and then do what they said they would do. This alternative Disneyland tour of creating things in the sky that sound great but don't reach reality is worse than just saying "no, we aren't doing that".
- Paul
Rainforest
Senior Member
^ On the other hand, there is a risk that if they promise less, they will do even less than promised.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
I'm still relieved that all three parties are much more pro-transit than most of the 1990s provincial parties.
The bigger risk to the transit file will be the muncipal candidates. Like Hamilton's next mayor for the Hamilton LRT.
The bigger risk to the transit file will be the muncipal candidates. Like Hamilton's next mayor for the Hamilton LRT.
Promises broken aside (Hamilton all-day GO was to come 2015...) -- I'll have to agree. There's never been this many shovels in the ground in recent memory. The momentum must continue -- maybe with adjustments/good efficiencies -- but must continue.
syn
Senior Member
Based on history, this would seem to be a very unrealistic expectation, unfortunately.
I agree the Liberals haven't been perfect on the transit file, but one has to pause when reading a very vague plan by the Tories - it would be very easy for them to renege on it. The $5 billion in funding is also very, very inadequate.
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44 North
Senior Member
A couple of rhetorical questions your post brings about:
-Is RER a Liberal project, or a Metrolinx project. And if the latter (which it should be), then I guess it doesn't really matter which party gets voted in since Metrolinx and its plans should remain regardless of whomever is in charge at QP.
-Is the 2013 RER grand plan over and above the original Big Move RTP? That is, are we getting all the projects promised and RER on top. As I understand it that's not really the case. By promising RER (after rejecting electrification beyond LSE+LSW and parts of Kitchener just a couple years prior) we're actually delaying or canceling other parts of the RTP. Obviously everyone supports the project in one way or another, but I don't think many are aware that it may come at the expense of other likeable projects elsewhere. This after virtually all revenue tools with which the RTP was based have been rejected (in other words we have limited funds to begin with). So maybe Patrick Brown is planning on offering a bare-bones RER (e.g just AD2W), but spreading the same allocated funds to other perhaps newer projects - not unlike what the current party has done.
crs1026
Superstar
Certainly Wynne was the first one who declared herself willing to spend the whole shot on RER. McGinty talked big but cut things back afterwards (eg trimming the original Crosstown plan).
Maybe rather than focusing on RER vs not RER, we should be asking Brown if the commitment to expand GO from 1500 trains per week to 6000 trains per week still stands. The magnitude, rather than the precise fabric, may be what best defines the ML-designed, Wynne-approved transit strategy. That commitment is what Brown should be held to if he claims to be sustaining previous strategy.
Let's not kid ourselves. The Big Move, and its more recent updates, is a shopping catalog and not an execution plan. Ontario doesnt have the wealth to make it all happen. RER is aligned with and contained in the Big Move, so it can proceed. And it has been given priority. But most of us will be using walkers before it all comes to be.
- Paul
Hopkins123
Senior Member
My point is even if the Liberals are doing things, it's at a snail's pace, and not necessarily what the public wants to see done.
drum118
Superstar
To do what McGinty wanted to do in 2003 after being elected for Transit, it was going to cost $2 billion a year for the next 20 years. When the first budget went to him in 2008(?), it was $90 Billion and said it had to be $50 Billion.
To build all the Transit propose today that are well outside the original area, we are looking at $140 Billion or about $7 Billion per year, that includes operation, maintenance and replacement cost. This does not allow for what has already been spent so far that needs to be deducted from that number.
The problem from day one is which projects should be built first to the point no shovels were not in the ground when McGinty gave the first board the boot. As long as you try spreading things out to everyone, very few are going to see value for the dollar by doing so.
To run any service, you need the infrastructure in place before you can run something and that takes time and money. Doing things in piece meal does show something, but still cause problems for what every been built in the long run as well delaying service that should happen sooner than later. When dealing with 2 RR that march to there drums, it a problem one way or another and not going to disappear over time to get things built a fast as possible and within cost range.
At the end of the day, there is only X dollars at hand and the thought question becomes, which project is going to get the big bang for the Buck?? Until there is a true project ranking in place based on needs, not dollars or politics, only then we will see real improvement for everyone. It will take more than 20 years to full fill all the projects needs, but start dealing with them yesterday is long over due.
Metrolinx itself is a failure based on the people who run it as well interference from all levels of government. Far too many pet projects getting built or change from what it was supposed to be a greater cost to everyone as well a longer time frame to get it built. The UPX was to be electrify by 2019 if I remember correctly and not even close to meeting that date now.
Time to stop all the BS and start building what is supposed to happen and not wait a decade or 2 on technology that still unproven, when it can't deal with the current equipment that is needed for today needs, let alone down the road.
If the new Metrolinx CEO has balls to tell Queens Park this is what is needed and how much it going to cost in a set order as well time frame, who is in power come June 19 has a big decision to make where transit is going, as well who is calling the shots.
I don't trust the PC, see no real platform from the NDP and a water down one from the Liberals at this time, but still will chose the Liberals plan at this time. Most likely there will be a new leader for the Liberals come June 19.
To build all the Transit propose today that are well outside the original area, we are looking at $140 Billion or about $7 Billion per year, that includes operation, maintenance and replacement cost. This does not allow for what has already been spent so far that needs to be deducted from that number.
The problem from day one is which projects should be built first to the point no shovels were not in the ground when McGinty gave the first board the boot. As long as you try spreading things out to everyone, very few are going to see value for the dollar by doing so.
To run any service, you need the infrastructure in place before you can run something and that takes time and money. Doing things in piece meal does show something, but still cause problems for what every been built in the long run as well delaying service that should happen sooner than later. When dealing with 2 RR that march to there drums, it a problem one way or another and not going to disappear over time to get things built a fast as possible and within cost range.
At the end of the day, there is only X dollars at hand and the thought question becomes, which project is going to get the big bang for the Buck?? Until there is a true project ranking in place based on needs, not dollars or politics, only then we will see real improvement for everyone. It will take more than 20 years to full fill all the projects needs, but start dealing with them yesterday is long over due.
Metrolinx itself is a failure based on the people who run it as well interference from all levels of government. Far too many pet projects getting built or change from what it was supposed to be a greater cost to everyone as well a longer time frame to get it built. The UPX was to be electrify by 2019 if I remember correctly and not even close to meeting that date now.
Time to stop all the BS and start building what is supposed to happen and not wait a decade or 2 on technology that still unproven, when it can't deal with the current equipment that is needed for today needs, let alone down the road.
If the new Metrolinx CEO has balls to tell Queens Park this is what is needed and how much it going to cost in a set order as well time frame, who is in power come June 19 has a big decision to make where transit is going, as well who is calling the shots.
I don't trust the PC, see no real platform from the NDP and a water down one from the Liberals at this time, but still will chose the Liberals plan at this time. Most likely there will be a new leader for the Liberals come June 19.
rbt
Senior Member
RER is a Metrolinx project with an implementation timeline reliant on a Liberal budget plan.
Change the budget plan and Metrolinx will adjust their implementation timeline accordingly.
In short, Liberals promised to fund 13B between 2018 and 2025. Reduce the amount or move out the dates and Metrolinx will not be able to follow through.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
If I may chime in on this discussion, although the plan presented by the PC's seems ambitious and promising, it begs the question of sincerity and knowing whether the proposed projects are worth considering. Knowing that the PCs defunded the TTC and privatized the 407, it begs the question whether they will continue on that path with the subway. Logically, they will have learned from their mistakes but one can never know. Taking ownership usually spells out privatization.
With regards to their promise to fully fund the Scarborough subway, I don't understand why they don't just commit to the Sheppard east and west subway extensions and scrap the BD extension. It makes much more sense because the BD extension parallels RER, and the Sheppard subway will have more stations. Instead of having to add commitment to the BD extension, that 3 billion dollars can go pay for part of the Sheppard extensions, as well as other provincial and federal funds, and leave extra money over for the DRL and Yonge subway extensions.
With regards to their promise to fully fund the Scarborough subway, I don't understand why they don't just commit to the Sheppard east and west subway extensions and scrap the BD extension. It makes much more sense because the BD extension parallels RER, and the Sheppard subway will have more stations. Instead of having to add commitment to the BD extension, that 3 billion dollars can go pay for part of the Sheppard extensions, as well as other provincial and federal funds, and leave extra money over for the DRL and Yonge subway extensions.
Neutrino
Senior Member
I'm afraid Sheppard East and West will cost even more and have even fewer riders.