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2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

You exaggerate greatly to your own detriment.

Equating Doug Ford to Rob Ford is not entirely unlike comparing Jeb Bush to George W. Bush. They may have similar policies but they are not the same person.

Doug is competent and seems relatively reasonable to me. Anyone who runs a business knows the dangers of spiraling debt and managing staff. If anyone can stand up to the unions it would be Doug. There’s no question he’s tough.

Again, I hope Christine Elliott gets the nomination though. She would be better for Ontario overall.

Wynne is not qualified to lead anything but perhaps a parade. She is a proven danger and possibly worse than her predecessor.


steveintoronto said:
*Unanimously*! If nothing else, that delineates a massive difference between Toronto awareness, and Ottawa awareness, and that difference displays in how provincial matters are also viewed. For all the defensiveness on the point, Toronto *is* egocentric.

It's far too easy to lose track of the fact that the man isn't *rationally* 'right of centre'. He's *moronically* 'off-centre'. Maybe Toronto-centric reactionaries relate to that, and then presume everyone else overlooks The Hulk being forgiven his massive shortcomings.

I have to repeat, some posters confuse 'simplicity' with 'stupidity'. You can be entirely bright and aware and be simple. In fact, I envy that in ways. But if you are bright and aware, then you're not 'stupid'. Torontonians can and do forget as to how we were the laughing stock of the developed world with Robbo in office. Subtract getting caught, and keeping his dirty business to himself, Doug is no better intellectually.
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rbt said:
Why does below average earnings for their industry in the majority of years (every company gets lucky sometimes) make Doug a competent businessman?

I'd like something better for Ontario than anemic growth, treading water, and an unhappy workforce (anyone who pays taxes in Ontario is the work force).

Doug's capacity for business reminds me a lot of my uncles. They loved the business they inherited from their father and sunk their souls into it but probably would have been much richer fiscally if they hired a decent CEO and did something else as silent owners.


Doug understands his business but he's far from understanding all business and Ontario does a bit more than printing. Printing isn't our core competency or an area of future growth or even an area that pays particularly high salaries.
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I'm not sure if Doug does love Deco. I don't think he has a soul, but if he did, I doubt he'd sink it into the business.

We've seen examples of some business cards that are hardly advertisements for the quality of his product. Is that who we want running the province? No thanks.

And this. Big time.:
Government isn’t a business. Being a businessman doesn’t mean you know shit about building consensus in a democratic setting.
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Units said:
While I'd rather see a strong female candidate as the leader, preferably Christine Elliott, Doug Ford would do just fine. He may be a little crass at times but he's a competent businessman and that's what this Province so desperately needs now. Ignore the personality and concentrate on the policy.
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Inheriting daddy's business doesn't make him a businessman. Unless you were referring to his hash dealing, which I'm guessing was of his own volition.
 
PinkLucy said:
I'm not sure if Doug does love Deco. I don't think he has a soul, but if he did, I doubt he'd sink it into the business.

We've seen examples of some business cards that are hardly advertisements for the quality of his product. Is that who we want running the province? No thanks.

And this. Big time.:
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I saw someone post a business card picture here and while I agree its wasn't overly appealing I remember thinking it looks as though the card was purposely made as a hybrid to demonstrate the company does both both business cards and stick on labels. Again you have ample reason not to like the guy for other reasons but a picture of a business card is stretch justification.

Agree Gov't is not just a business, although its very much an asset as long as you can work with others on social and all other issues. A major concern I have is that Gov't shouldn't be run by lifers who can either become as face for corruption, spend time working on a one party environment and make short term decisions based on getting-elected. Term limits should be mandatory.
 
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Units said:
Doug is competent and seems relatively reasonable to me. Anyone who runs a business knows the dangers of spiraling debt and managing staff. If anyone can stand up to the unions it would be Doug. There’s no question he’s tough.
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He's a salesman, not a businessman. He can run the accounts his dad gave him and he can sell the products his dad developed, but his strategic moves have been disasters. Deco's New Jersey debacle is all on him - if he can't even take over a small label printer with a motivated seller, how can he possibly manage the complexities of something like Hydro One?
 
It looks like the Liberals and the NDP are being held in suspense until the next PC leader is selected. I am very interested in what Wynne will propose in her platform. The logical choice would be to undercut the NDP even more by staying as much to the left as possible - it has worked for me; I'm a natural NDP voter, but Wynne has the advantage of having actually implemented policies that I approve of, and I don't see anything positive in Horwath.

The argument that Wynne should be replaced because she in unpopular is just so much circular reasoning. At this point, it looks like she is unpopular because this has become some kind of popular wisdom (as if such a thing existed), even though the province is actually doing very well. Which leads me to believe that it is mostly because she is a woman and/or a lesbian. Or perhaps I have a different point of view because I haven't watched TV in 12 years and haven't been influenced by ads or sensational TV coverage.
 
Yeah, I also don't understand why there's a general sense of the province somehow heading into an abyss. It's simply isn't the case. I'm no Liberal (by a mile, trust), but let's be real here. Economy's fine and then some. I personally don't see the problem with hydro prices, mine having gone up from 35$ a month five years ago to 35$ a month now (oh, wait....). The debt thing I coudn't care about....I have enough of my own at WAAAAY higher interest rates. Health care works for me, mostly because I do everything in my own power to stay healthy. Something's being done about expanding public transit (my second-most important policy issue after electoral reform). It's a friggin great place to live. Do political lifers corrupt everything they touch? Yes! That doesn't mean the province is going to hell in a handbasket though.
Every phone poll that ask if I think the province is headed in the right direction gets to hear a "Yessir" from me.

I also don't understand why Wynne is so unpopular. She seems like a decent person and a typical Liberal. I think people are projecting their dissatisfaction with the Liberal party onto her.

Somebody please explain this hydro thing to me though, for real. I have no idea how people's costs have "skyrocketed" when mine have stayed roughly the same since 2012. The hydro thing is beyond being a non-issue for me. In one ear, out the other. Turn the TV and AC off...I don't know. Stop baking daily. Turn your internet router off when you're not using it. Do something other than moan.

I should edit this....I don't want to seem completely ignorant.
I understand that certain areas of the province will have higher costs of provision of power and I live in an area of the province to which it is more efficient to deliver electricity. Though, I have to say, plenty of my fellow Torontonians moaning about hydro as well so it can't be that entirely. Yup......stop using so much power. Why the hell are your Christmas lights still up and on all day?
 
...and another thing. The term "champagne socialists" needs to die. The USSR had real champagne socialists. Czechoslovakia had real champagne socialists. The DDR had real champagne socialists. Kim Jong-Un....now, that's a champagne socialist...while his people starve. Chinese politburo.....yeah, you get where I'm going with this.

I don't think the people who use the term know what they're on about entirely.
 
Re hydro. My delivery charge, in downtown Toronto, was almost $30 in a month where I was away the entire month. That was before the recent price drop, which I don’t agree with. We are just delaying paying. Prices have risen, but when you live somewhere like City Place and Your hydro keeps going out, you are hard pressed to see that rising prices have led to improvements. When you run a small grocery store, which I did for years, hydro is a huge part of your operating costs, and it’s not so easy to just turn off the Christmas lights to reduce costs.
 
I was entirely speaking of residential customers and completely forgot about commercial customers (wtf! hahaa). Yeah, the delivery charge won't go away just because almost no power is being used. It's a standard rate. Mine is also almost 30$ and was such when I went up north last summer for the better part of July. It's gone up again....by an amount so insignificant I needed their explanatory pamphlet to notice. Also, I lied....my bill has gone up by 3-5$ since 2012. I forgot about the provincial rebate, which I neither need nor want.

How much have prices gone up for others? I honestly can't see a difference in my bill. I don't know, 35-40$ a month seems like a steal to me to have lights and a functioning tea kettle (which is all I really need).

Why does the hydro keep going out at CityPlace? Does it have to do with the electricity generator or provider?
 
animatronic said:
He's a salesman, not a businessman. He can run the accounts his dad gave him and he can sell the products his dad developed, but his strategic moves have been disasters. Deco's New Jersey debacle is all on him - if he can't even take over a small label printer with a motivated seller, how can he possibly manage the complexities of something like Hydro One?
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To play devil's advocate, he doesn't need to manage the complexities of Hydro One or much of anything else to be PC leader let alone premier. That's for the professional civil service and deputy ministers to deal with. I do think experience does matter even for elected politicians but our current system prizes connections and media savvy over other considerations. Whatever you think about Trudeau, I don't think his experience as a drama teacher at a Vancouver private school offers much for the complexities of foreign policy and constitutional law.
 
JGHali said:
To play devil's advocate, he doesn't need to manage the complexities of Hydro One or much of anything else to be PC leader let alone premier. That's for the professional civil service and deputy ministers to deal with. I do think experience does matter even for elected politicians but our current system prizes connections and media savvy over other considerations. Whatever you think about Trudeau, I don't think his experience as a drama teacher at a Vancouver private school offers much for the complexities of foreign policy and constitutional law.
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So look at his track record on council. He had four years to prove his chops and was utterly incapable of building and leading teams. If you can't build coalitions and see initiatives through to the end at city hall you don't have a hope in hell at Queen's Park.

Also remember that Rob only survived because he couldn't be fired. Once Premier Doug pissed off enough of his party they'd just turf him like they did to Brown.
 
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