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2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

MTown said:
Mulroney vs Ford.....oh my word.

Two political dynasties, head to head. On one side, somewhat decent people. On the other, somewhat people.

This should be fun.
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Err, how do you figure Ford is a "Dynasty"...other than 'Die Nasty'?


Theo Moudakis‏Verified account@TheoMoudakis 4h4 hours ago
Here's Wednesday's #DougFord cartoon in @TorontoStar

DU0S_0aWkAAWouw.jpg
 
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steveintoronto said:
That does tie things together. Absolutely. Watch that name "Velshi" very closely. What was he doing 'back at the office' when he'd already 'quit' on Brown?

As to thinking 905ers would vote for Ford as opposed to an "elitist"...Well that's very odd, wouldn't you say? Who voted for Trudeau then?

You're reading this wrong. Sure Ford will pick-up some losers, so he can declare himself their 'loser' in opposition. So 'elitists' are out and idiots are 'in'?

Good luck on that one. The real question I have is how big are the boots Mulroney has to bring to re-establish order out of chaos. Fedeli has already blown his wad it seems. Mulroney can bring, and will bring, some real heavyweights back to the party.

Look, this isn't about pleasing the present Con Caucus. It's about taking votes from Wynne to win. And Mulroney has all the right stuff to do it. Can she play it in a matter of months? If there's nothing left of the present sorry lot, I can't see why not.

@Videodrome

Trying to trace this for authenticity and reference. I'm not a 'Twitter type'.

Anyone have anything more substantive than this?

Addendum:
OK, I'm now seeing it on Twitter.
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My bad. I didn't include the link to the Star story.
 
Digging on the Hamilton Police, fraud, and Con Party issue, this shows, byline by RobertBenzie (whose tweet is posted above):
By ROBERT BENZIEQueen's Park Bureau Chief

Thu., Nov. 16, 2017
A police probe of a disputed Progressive Conservative nomination contest is now a criminal investigation into allegations of fraud.

Hamilton Police detectives are investigating unnamed Conservative officials in connection with the Tories’ May 7 candidate election in the riding of Hamilton West-Ancaster-Dundas.

Vikram Singh, a Hamilton lawyer and runner-up in the four-contestant nomination, filed a complaint with police last summer after he launched a civil action against the party alleging “wrongful insertion of false ballots.”

The criminal probe is separate from Singh’s ongoing civil litigation that named Ontario Conservative Leader Patrick Brown, party president Rick Dykstra, PC executive director Bob Stanley, and senior Brown aide Logan Bugeja.

Const. Lorraine Edwards confirmed Thursday that the criminal investigation is proceeding.

“We can expect this to take several months,” said Edwards.

Peter Brauti, the lawyer representing the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario, said “we’ve provided full cooperation” and stressed that Brown is not subject to the criminal probe.

“As far as I know, they’re not looking at the leader; they’re not looking at the party. They are looking into whether individuals conducted themselves appropriately during the … physical election,” he said.

“They’ve made no promises as to when they would finish, but it was hopeful they would finish sometime this year,” he said.

Dykstra said the Tories have improved their candidate selection practices in the wake of the Hamilton West-Ancaster-Dundas debacle.

“Following our nomination in Hamilton, concerns were raised about the nomination contest. The leader brought in PricewaterhouseCoopers and a new process for nominations,” Dykstra said.

“We have been providing assistance in regard to the investigation. We will continue to remain open and transparent should there be any further requests.”

Singh’s lawyer Richard Macklin expressed satisfaction that the criminal probe is proceeding.

“My client looks forward to a thorough investigation in what he feels is a matter of significant public importance,” said Macklin.

If any charges were laid before the June 7, 2018 election, the political fallout could be significant. But the stakes are also high for those being investigated — a fraud conviction can carry a sentence of 14 years in prison in Canada.

Tory sources said documents have been provided to the police, including text messages, emails, and a ballot box used at the nomination meeting.

Even though the party traditionally destroys ballots a week after a candidate election is held, insiders said that did not happen in Hamilton.

According to documents filed by Singh with the Ontario Court of Justice for his civil suit, the May 7 nomination won by Ben Levitt was fraught with irregularities. The allegations have not been proven in court.

Jeff Peller, another runner-up in the May 7 vote, who is not part of Singh’s suit, withdrew a separate court application against the Tories on Oct. 20.

There have been at least seven contentious PC nominations this year, including a May 6 nomination in Ottawa West-Nepean, where winner Karma Macgregor received 15 votes more over runner-up Jeremy Roberts in an election where there were 28 more ballots in the boxes than voters who had registered.

Roberts’ appeal of that result was rejected by the party executive.
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https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...tion-in-hamilton-is-now-a-criminal-probe.html
 
So one week in, and the only confirmed candidate is Doug Ford. None of the prospective candidates are sitting MPs, which means that someone from a “safe” PC riding would need to give up their seats

Why are none of the PCPO MPPs coming forward to run? Do they have that little faith in the party?

I worry that this thing is going to come down to Doug vs Mulroney. If that’s the case, Ford has a very good shot at winning this. The PCPO membership couldn’t hold their nose and vote for a centrist last time around, and I doubt anything has changed since then. Plus party elections often come down to who can sign up the most members, and I have no doubt that Ford can effectively recruit new members for the party.

If Ford wins leadership, the best case scenario is that he ends up as opposition leader for four years (and potentially running again in 2022). Worst case scenario is PCs form government. Both are terrible outcomes. I’m getting nervous about this.
 
If Ford wins leadership, the best case scenario is that he ends up as opposition leader for four years (and potentially running again in 2022). Worst case scenario is PCs form government. Both are terrible outcomes. I’m getting nervous about this.
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While I'd rather see a strong female candidate as the leader, preferably Christine Elliott, Doug Ford would do just fine. He may be a little crass at times but he's a competent businessman and that's what this Province so desperately needs now. Ignore the personality and concentrate on the policy.

Wynne absolutely cannot stay. Her destruction of Ontario's finances ($330 billion debt, highest of any sub-sovereign entity in the world) alone disqualifies her from office. Ontario is now a have not province and it's entirely due to her failures. That and the disgraceful Hydro scandal are enough for any reasonably informed person to reject her and her goons.
 
Units said:
While I'd rather see a strong female candidate as the leader, preferably Christine Elliott, Doug Ford would do just fine. He may be a little crass at times but he's a competent businessman and that's what this Province so desperately needs now. Ignore the personality and concentrate on the policy.

Wynne absolutely cannot stay. Her destruction of Ontario's finances ($330 billion debt, highest of any sub-sovereign entity in the world) alone disqualifies her from office. Ontario is now a have not province and it's entirely due to her failures. That and the disgraceful Hydro scandal are enough for any reasonably informed person to reject her and her goons.
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I agree that a lot of voters are sexist and would prefer a woman candidate. I really think Mulroney should not run as she had zero political experience and a loss may damage her abilities for the future.
As you say, "any reasonably informed person" would not vote for Wynne, but the Liberals are excellent campaigners and they will make the election about anything but their record for the past 15 years. And the easily distracted public may decide to ignore the issues and just vote based on who has the slickest campaign and the largest promises (even if they are completely unachievable - i.e. like the Trudeau promise of bringing in 15,000 refugees by years end).
 
adma said:
Re Caroline Mulroney, the one thing that's certain however many players are in the race is that she'll have the Globe & Mail's support.
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She's got wide support in the NatPost as well as the Globe. The real question is whether the Stun would support Ford. Post Media might have already thrown their weight behind Mulroney, to the exclusion of the Stun's ostensible editorial independence. You'll note Chris Selley's opinion piece running featured in both the Stun and Pest.
 
Units said:
He may be a little crass at times but he's a competent businessman ...
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Why does below average earnings for their industry in the majority of years (every company gets lucky sometimes) make Doug a competent businessman?

I'd like something better for Ontario than anemic growth, treading water, and an unhappy workforce (anyone who pays taxes in Ontario is the work force).

Doug's capacity for business reminds me a lot of my uncles. They loved the business they inherited from their father and sunk their souls into it but probably would have been much richer fiscally if they hired a decent CEO and did something else as silent owners.


Doug understands his business but he's far from understanding all business and Ontario does a bit more than printing. Printing isn't our core competency or an area of future growth or even an area that pays particularly high salaries.
 
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salsa said:
Sure they could, but they won't. They'll find a way to screw it up, but that's what they get for not removing Andrea Horwath when they had the chance.
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Agreed, but in deference to Horwath, who's about as inspiring as a damp wash rag, none of the 'leaders' that we have at provincial level, at almost all levels of government at this time (and it's not just Canada) are just not inspiring, dynamic material.

I think many Ontarians would react the same as myself. "I don't care what political stripe they are, if they can pilot this plane that's in a nosedive, then put them in the pilot's seat".

I see only one viable candidate so far, albeit it's still early.
 
Man, the scandals plaguing the PCs are hitting fast and furious. It's amazing all that's happened in such a brief amount of time. Makes you wonder what's coming next.

Admiral Beez said:
It's funny how history has moved on from the negative association of the Brian Mulroney years. This was the man that took a majority government down to two seats (yes, they tossed in Kim Campbell to take the glass cliff), the man who sparked the foundation of the Bloc Quebecois, Stephen Harper, and Reform, the man who took bags of cash in the Airbus scandal, etc, etc. But times heals and gives perspective.
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I've said something similar here a couple of times now, but nobody seems to agree. Mulroney was far from popular by the time he slithered out of the PM's office, leaving Kim Campbell behind holding the bag. Feelings may have died down somewhat in the intervening years, but he was well and truly hated when he left government. Does no-one else remember that? I don't think her family name is going to necessarily help Caroline all that much, and it might very well end up hurting her.
 
Justin Trudeau has had Brian Mulroney get involved to help with Canada-US relations.

That has probably helped soften peoples stance on him.
 
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