2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[SunriseChampion]

Ignore the personality and concentrate on the policy.

That doesn't help when one finds his policy ideas to be uninspiring, to be diplomatic.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Why does below average earnings for their industry in the majority of years (every company gets lucky sometimes) make Doug a competent businessman?

I'd like something better for Ontario than anemic growth, treading water, and an unhappy workforce (anyone who pays taxes in Ontario is the work force).

Doug's capacity for business reminds me a lot of my uncles. They loved the business they inherited from their father and sunk their souls into it but probably would have been much richer fiscally if they hired a decent CEO and did something else as silent owners.


Doug understands his business but he's far from understanding all business and Ontario does a bit more than printing. Printing isn't our core competency or an area of future growth or even an area that pays particularly high salaries.

Government isn’t a business. Being a businessman doesn’t mean you know shit about building consensus in a democratic setting.

 

[SunriseChampion]

That has probably helped soften peoples stance on him.

I'm soft on him because he's old and because his government righteously stood against South African apartheid. I'm too young to have felt what life was like during his government.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Government isn’t a business. Being a businessman doesn’t mean you know shit about building consensus in a democratic setting.

Yeah, that too.

 

[rbt]

Government isn’t a business. Being a businessman doesn’t mean you know shit about building consensus in a democratic setting.

That too; but I also take issue with Doug being considered a good businessman. He's mediocre at best (not bankrupt but still hanging on).

 

[picard102]

I think many Ontarians would react the same as myself. "I don't care what political stripe they are, if they can pilot this plane that's in a nosedive, then put them in the pilot's seat".

I think many Ontarians need to see an ENT Specialist to get their vestibular system looked at if they think the plane is in a nosedive.

 

[steveintoronto]

I think many Ontarians need to see an ENT Specialist to get their vestibular system looked at if they think the plane is in a nosedive.

Polls clearly show Wynne as being highly unpopular.
http://angusreid.org/premier-approval-dec2017/

It's not just my view of her, it's that of the clear majority of Ontarians. The dilemma becomes a conundrum when Ontarians are forced to vote for her regime because the alternatives look even worse.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Polls clearly show Wynne as being highly unpopular.
http://angusreid.org/premier-approval-dec2017/

It's not just my view of her, it's that of the clear majority of Ontarians. The dilemma becomes a conundrum when Ontarians are forced to vote for her regime because the alternatives look even worse.

The popularity of the leader doesn’t necessarily translate to popularity at the polls

Horwath is very popular, yet her party comes dead last at the polls. Wynne is very unpopular, yet her party won a majority. To a broad extent, voters are willing to hold their nose and elect Premier they don’t like, if the party policies are in line with their values.

 

[steveintoronto]

The popularity of the leader doesn’t necessarily translate to popularity at the polls

"The dilemma becomes a conundrum when Ontarians are forced to vote for her regime because the alternatives look even worse."

 

[gweed123]

One of the Fords' main shticks in Toronto politics was the whole "subways good, LRT and streetcars bad" thing. Outside of Toronto, that isn't going to play at all. Ottawa will be opening a brand new LRT line within weeks of the Provincial elections, an LRT which was approved unanimously by Council. Ditto for Phase II of it, which will begin construction at about the same time. Kitchener-Waterloo's will be open by the time the election rolls around.

Both of those openings will receive huge amounts of positive press in those respective markets. It'll be pretty tough for Doug to roll into town saying "LRTs are a disaster. They snarl traffic and kill business" when all people have to do is take a ride on it to confidently turn around and tell him "you're full of shit".

Just saying, the pro-subway thing may work in Toronto, but if he tries that in Burlington or Oshawa or Windsor or Kingston, he'll get laughed out of the room.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Government isn’t a business. Being a businessman doesn’t mean you know shit about building consensus in a democratic setting.

You don’t govern by building consensus, since most people don’t or can’t vote, and of those that do, most don’t change their voting allegiance. So, you govern by pandering to your base, using wealth distribution, pork and legislations to ensure they vote in greater numbers to ensure you stay in power.

 

[steveintoronto]

Ottawa will be opening a brand new LRT line within weeks of the Provincial elections, an LRT which was approved unanimously by Council.

*Unanimously*! If nothing else, that delineates a massive difference between Toronto awareness, and Ottawa awareness, and that difference displays in how provincial matters are also viewed. For all the defensiveness on the point, Toronto *is* egocentric.

Just saying, the pro-subway thing may work in Toronto, but if he tries that in Burlington or Oshawa or Windsor or Kingston, he'll get laughed out of the room.

It's far too easy to lose track of the fact that the man isn't *rationally* 'right of centre'. He's *moronically* 'off-centre'. Maybe Toronto-centric reactionaries relate to that, and then presume everyone else overlooks The Hulk being forgiven his massive shortcomings.

I have to repeat, some posters confuse 'simplicity' with 'stupidity'. You can be entirely bright and aware and be simple. In fact, I envy that in ways. But if you are bright and aware, then you're not 'stupid'. Torontonians can and do forget as to how we were the laughing stock of the developed world with Robbo in office. Subtract getting caught, and keeping his dirty business to himself, Doug is no better intellectually.

 

[salsa]

One of the Fords' main shticks in Toronto politics was the whole "subways good, LRT and streetcars bad" thing. Outside of Toronto, that isn't going to play at all. Ottawa will be opening a brand new LRT line within weeks of the Provincial elections, an LRT which was approved unanimously by Council. Ditto for Phase II of it, which will begin construction at about the same time. Kitchener-Waterloo's will be open by the time the election rolls around.

Both of those openings will receive huge amounts of positive press in those respective markets. It'll be pretty tough for Doug to roll into town saying "LRTs are a disaster. They snarl traffic and kill business" when all people have to do is take a ride on it to confidently turn around and tell him "you're full of shit".

Just saying, the pro-subway thing may work in Toronto, but if he tries that in Burlington or Oshawa or Windsor or Kingston, he'll get laughed out of the room.

Did you forget that the Fords also ran on the 'gravy train', with great success?

 

[narduch]

Did you forget that the Fords also ran on the 'gravy train', with great success?

If he wasn't spiraling out of control he probably would have won a 2nd term.

 

[OneCity]

Did you forget that the Fords also ran on the 'gravy train', with great success?

His shtick will be tailored to Provincial issues and the Liberal have left a lot of things open for fancy slogans. When he speaks to Toronto voters it will be the usual shtick, Pro DRL, SSE, Sheppard, and anti projects which remove car lanes or has limited thought put behind impact to all modes of transportation.