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2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

ehlow said:
I think what would happen is he'll try to convince Metrolinx to:

A. Prioritize Georgetown and Stouffville ahead of the Lakeshore lines
B. Possibly join the two with through-running trains

Now you have something very much like SmartTrack. Next steps:

C. Try to make it TTC fare with free transfers to TTC, add it to the TTC map. This costs operating dollars but isn't a major physical change.

Almost there..

D. Add stations within Toronto

Now the only difference with his original SmartTrack map is the Eglinton section. I think having it go to the airport instead and replace UPX is probably be the best choice.

At each step the GO RER is transformed closer to SmartTrack. Notice that not much needs to happen for him to claim that he has "built SmartTrack", even just the first 2 is probably enough for him to claim that next election.
Click to expand...

Metrolinx will already be doing D and to a certain extent C as well. But I do agree that this is what is most likely to happen. I just hope that the four other lines aren't forgotten in the process.
 
gweed123 said:
Well let's start by figuring out the ways in which SmartTrack could potentially be different from GO RER:

1) More stations within Toronto. Not hard at all for GO RER to incorporate that, and they may already be doing that.

2) Using a TTC fare. Well we know Metrolinx is already working on a fare integration plan, so that point is probably going to happen anyway.

3) The section along Eglinton West. As many has pointed out, that's just plain dumb. No need for Metrolinx to roll that into anything except a paper shredder.

4) Potentially run by the TTC. Again, just plain dumb.

So we have two things that GO/Metrolinx is already working on, and two things they would never work on or never agree to. But if #1 and #2 happen, even if it's the SmartTrack plan that really pushes them, then I'd be all for it.
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Exactly. With 3 Metrolinx can simply say "no" to him if he asks for it. He obviously can't change it during the campaign for political reasons.

Any mayor who gets elected will have to make some sort of deal or compromise with Metrolinx, just like Ford did. Tory will likely talk to Metrolinx if he gets elected they'll likely agree on something like 1 & 2. It could end up looking like GO RER, which they were doing anyways.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Vancouver has real rapid transit to the airport at regular prices and there is absolutely no excuse why Toronto shouldn't either.
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Toy trains smaller than the Scarborough sardine cans isn't real rapid transit.

I know Vancouver is perfect but there's no need to lie.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Tory's plan using existing corridors is doable and pragmatic. It's not rocket science, he's simply using rail transit corridors for transit. He is doing exactly what GO does except they will be TTC fares which makes them affordable to the average transit user.
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Eglinton is an existing corridor? Eglinton is doable and pragmatic? As for the fares, Metrolinx will have a say on that. They own the rail corridors, and they are not gonna give them away to the TTC. But you seem to think that whatever Tory says is gonna happen in real life, including the colour of the trains.
 
I know people complain about GO stations, but from what I recall riding the Paris RER their stations aren't orders of magnitude more elaborate than ours...
 
Prioritising Lakeshore behind Georgetown/Stouffville is asking Metrolinx to act against its own interest, since electrifying both the lines their principal maintenance facilities sit on it surely their priority. It has also yet to be explained how GO RER fares will work if SmartTrack costs TTC fare. But I'm sure there is a call in from Tory to the Thomsons telling them that Oliver Moore simply must be the newest Globe foreign correspondent specializing in Siberian affairs.
 
Forgotten said:
Toy trains smaller than the Scarborough sardine cans isn't real rapid transit.

I know Vancouver is perfect but there's no need to lie.
Click to expand...

They're arguably "smaller" in the sense that the Canada Line trains are comprised of two rather than four cars, but the cars themselves are much larger. I found them much more comfortable when I lived in Vancouver than the SRT, mainly due to the width. I'm happy to be corrected but from a cursory wikipedia search it also seems that the Canada Line trains hold something like 50% more people than a four car SRT train.
 
ehlow said:
They would need to have higher platforms for level boarding for high platform EMU trains right?
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Is having high floor platforms really a requirement for RER though? Isn't there an EMU vehicle we could buy that fits the platforms we have now?
 
TheTigerMaster said:
GO RER and SmartTrack are different plans... Or that's at least what Tory wants us to believe.

What frequencies has Tory set for his SmartTrack plan? I can't find any reference to 15 min or less.
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They are different plans for the reason Torontonians care about the most.........the fares. Smartrax is a TTC fare while GO RER will use much more expensive GO fares. Even if there is, eventually, fare integration that will still place the fares too high for many.

The reality is that most who use transit are the poor, working class, disabled, seniors, and students...........they can't afford GO fares even if they are integrated. I also think there is enough room for Smartrax and GO along the same corridors as I think he will can Eglinton and use the entire UPX corridor to Pearson. That line, which is only suppose to carry a paltry 6,000 passengers a day, will be very disliked by Torontonians as they see a line paid for by them whisking by because they can't afford it.

There will be hell to pay if the province sinks more money into electrifying the Pearson spur for the sole benefit of the tourists and business class when other needs are far more important and screaming for cash. Tory is not ideological nor close minded and will be open to the idea of route and station changes.

I never got the impression that the new Liberal government has been particularly enamoured with the UPX and is seen as more of a McGuinty iniative to have something, anything built in time for the Pan Am Games. The real sh.. is going to hit the fan when the fares are announced and the outcry to totally change the dynamics of that line will be very vocal as well they should be.
 
Considering that DRL is 12-15 years away and that's only the 1st phase, I feel pretty strongly that we should look at using GO corridors for travel within Toronto in a subway-like manner.

I think it can serve both local trips like Union to Liberty Village, or Bloor West to West Don lands etc, as well as longer distance trips within the city like Scarborough to Downtown and even longer trips like Milton to Toronto. Longer distance trips can either operate express to Union if there's track room, or stop spacing can increase to regional levels once you leave the city like S-Bahn, or they can transfer from regional to local trains at the edges of RER if necessary.

This not only requires frequent service both ways all day, but additional stops in some places, and as ssiguy2 says, fares attractive enough so that this thing can be used like a subway, which means cheaper than current GO fares. My preference is for it to just cost TTC fare and be part of the TTC RT system.

Fares are as important as service levels. If you took the subway down to Union, and you're going to Liberty Village, if you have to pay extra to use this service, you may opt to take the King streetcar instead, since it's already paid for by your TTC fare. However, if this service is part of the TTC system, then it's faster than the streetcar and is already paid for.

Now, it doesn't really matter to me if you call the above GO RER or SmartTrack, CityRail, GO REX, or I METRO, or who gets political credit for it. What matters is significantly expands Toronto's transit system, decreases people's travel time, and is cheaper and faster to build than any tunnelled subway.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Is having high floor platforms really a requirement for RER though? Isn't there an EMU vehicle we could buy that fits the platforms we have now?
Click to expand...
if we're saying FRA compliant bilevel 25kV AC, no there isn't. New Jersey Transit are thinking about something along those lines, but nothing in production.
 
ehlow said:
Considering that DRL is 12-15 years away and that's only the 1st phase, I feel pretty strongly that we should look at using GO corridors for travel within Toronto in a subway-like manner.

I think it can serve both local trips like Union to Liberty Village, or Bloor West to West Don lands etc, as well as longer distance trips within the city like Scarborough to Downtown and even longer trips like Milton to Toronto. Longer distance trips can either operate express to Union if there's track room, or stop spacing can increase to regional levels once you leave the city like S-Bahn, or they can transfer from regional to local trains at the edges of RER if necessary.

This not only requires frequent service both ways all day, but additional stops in some places, and as ssiguy2 says, fares attractive enough so that this thing can be used like a subway, which means cheaper than current GO fares. My preference is for it to just cost TTC fare and be part of the TTC RT system.

Fares are as important as service levels. If you took the subway down to Union, and you're going to Liberty Village, if you have to pay extra to use this service, you may opt to take the King streetcar instead, since it's already paid for by your TTC fare. However, if this service is part of the TTC system, then it's faster than the streetcar and is already paid for.
Click to expand...
the only way we get "subway like" service on GO lines is with positive train control. Metrolinx have asked suppliers to weigh in, but implementation of that has expensive and difficult in US installs - we should not assume that it would slide in here. Electrification has to happen, and vehicle procurement and commissioning.

i keep seeing people say that SmartTrack or whatever must operate at TTC fare in the 416, but if the cost per fare ends up driving all TTC fares skyward, the many parts of the city this scheme doesn't do a damn thing for might have something to say about that. After all, that (paying more for costly to run but express service) has been considered fair for punters taking the 140 series of TTC routes in the past.
 
Smartrax will get very good ridership as it brings rapid transit to hundreds of thousands of people that have no access now.

If you are concerned about having little or no subsidy from the TTC then half the bus routes would shut down. This is not just a commuter rail line but real transit that would operate at a minimum of 15 minute frequency all day everyday. That's similar to UPX except the UPX is suppose to, according to Metrolinx, get only 6,000 passengers a day. Even by lousy US standards that kind of ridership is beyond pathetic. If Metrolinx get's camera shy {meaning they fear for their job} and bring it down to even $15 one way, it will be bleeding red ink and will require a massive subsidy to keep the tourists and Bay Street crowd happy.

This is transit that Torontonians can use and afford and GO even with fare integration isn't. It shouldn't matter how you get to a destination in the same city whether it's bus, subway, RT, streetcar, LRT, commuter rail, or horse & Buggy.............the fare should be the same. If the distance is the same from A to B, then why does the TTC or Metrolinx care what technology you use to get there?
 
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