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2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

TheTigerMaster said:
If you listen carefully to what Tory's campaign staff has said on a few occasions, this is exactly what the SmartTrack plan is intended to do. Tory's intention is to roll the plan into our GO RER plan while taking credit for the idea. The similarities to the nearly identical GO RER plan were not accidental. This is why the OLP is so supportive of the plan. It's a blatantly dishonest bait and switch, but nevertheless brilliant political strategy. It will work well for Tory.

I suspect that this is the reason that the plan was so poorly researched. It doesn't matter if the funding model is impossible,or if the proposed corridors don't work because SmartTrack was never intended to be built in the first place. As long as the lines on the map vaguely resembles part of our GO RER plan, it will work for Tory.

I'd be surprised if SmartTrack ever goes to Council for a vote. And if it does it will be purely symbolic. Either way John Tory's SmartTrack plan is completely inconsequential for our city.
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Yup, I've said very similar in the past. It's for exactly this reason that I'm not really opposed to SmartTrack, because I know that it's basically just a dressed up version of GO REX. If it gets implemented as an 'overlap' service to GO's longer distance RER service, then I'll be quite happy.

Yes, Tory has 'rebranded' it, but at the end of the day it's still the same plan that Metrolinx is working on anyways. And in the days of "I'm candidate X and here's my transit plan", it's nice to see that what he's proposing is 90+% consistent with what is officially on the table. It's a nice contrast to RoFo/DoFo's plan, which would amount to starting much of the official transit plan over from scratch.

Personally, I don't care whether or not he takes credit for the idea. At least the City and the Province will be working together on the same plan. Without a strong champion at the municipal level, GO REX could get watered down or ripped apart piece by piece in favour of local priorities instead.
 
That's nice, but I have a hard time supporting a candidate who is willing to blatantly lie to the electorate like Tory has done. I'd have greater respect for him if he simply said that he'll support Metrolinx's RER plan. However I do like that if he was elected Tory would be in a position to ensure that RER is completed. In the coming weeks I'll have to decide if I should support Tory and overlook the lies that he has been telling us, in the hopes that he'd help push RER forward if the province tried to kill the plan.
 
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TheTigerMaster said:
That's nice, but I have a hard time supporting a candidate who is willing to blatantly lie to the electorate like Tory has done. I'd have greater respect for him if he simply said that he'll support Metrolinx's RER plan. However I do like that if he was elected Tory would be in a position to ensure that RER is completed. In the coming weeks I'll have to decide if I should support Tory and overlook the lies that he has been telling us, in the hopes that he'd help push RER forward if the province tried to kill the plan.
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The flip side of that of course is that his critics would then claim that he "doesn't have any original ideas" and "isn't thinking big enough". Chow has already been criticized for this, because the only real "original" thing she's supported is the increased bus service. I just see the SmartTrack branding as a way to avoid that, while still remaining relatively consistent with the official plans.

Those who are informed enough about the GO RER plan will certainly see the similarities, but the majority of the electorate don't even have a clue what that plan is, so SmartTrack to them is new, even if it actually isn't. If it gets the conversation going about Regional Express Rail, so much the better. Until the last year or so RER has been severely overlooked as a transit solution, so it needs all the help it can get, even if that's just being re-packaged and re-branded by a mayoral candidate.
 
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There is one VERY brig difference between Tory's Smartrax and GO RER.........the fare.

Again GO RER will be useless to most Torontonians due to GO's high fare rates. Tory's Smartrax would actually be of use to Torontonians themselves so instead of just seeing electric trains go by they could actually board one.

Somewhat interesting how a tram-train would actually work incredibly well on a Smartrax program. Not only could they radiat all over the city for TTC fares but they could actually work WITH Eglinton LRT. A tram-train could use the UPX corridor to Eglinton and then head west on Eglinton using LRT tracks. If they get it to Pearson then you would have 2 lines to Pearson along Eglinton.........the Smartrax to downtown and the interlined Eglinton.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
That's nice, but I have a hard time supporting a candidate who is willing to blatantly lie to the electorate like Tory has done. I'd have greater respect for him if he simply said that he'll support Metrolinx's RER plan. However I do like that if he was elected Tory would be in a position to ensure that RER is completed. In the coming weeks I'll have to decide if I should support Tory and overlook the lies that he has been telling us, in the hopes that he'd help push RER forward if the province tried to kill the plan.
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While Tory's plans aren't exactly unique, or even appropriate for a mayor to initiate (for the most part); it will be extremely helpful to have a co-operative mayor who can soften the way for the province (positive press, mediate TTC/Metrolinx relations, etc.) to actually implement their plan.

Tory is a bad choice as mayor (IMO) but he's still far better than the Ford alternative. I've never been a fan of Chow, including when she was my councillor.
 
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ssiguy2 said:
There is one VERY brig difference between Tory's Smartrax and GO RER.........the fare.

Again GO RER will be useless to most Torontonians due to GO's high fare rates. Tory's Smartrax would actually be of use to Torontonians themselves so instead of just seeing electric trains go by they could actually board one.

Somewhat interesting how a tram-train would actually work incredibly well on a Smartrax program. Not only could they radiat all over the city for TTC fares but they could actually work WITH Eglinton LRT. A tram-train could use the UPX corridor to Eglinton and then head west on Eglinton using LRT tracks. If they get it to Pearson then you would have 2 lines to Pearson along Eglinton.........the Smartrax to downtown and the interlined Eglinton.
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The fares for GO RER have not been announced yet, and one would think that for a project as expensive and ambitious as RER, Metrolinx would not be dumb enough to leave GO fares so prohibitively high as to make the end product as useless to Torontonians as what exists today.

Still, if Tory's grandstanding and lies with SmartTrack will help push RER forward at the municipal level, then at least some good will come from him. The man looks fairly inevitably to be the next mayor of Toronto, so it may be time to start mulling over mitigating his outlandish project and integrating it into something a little more reasonable and useful.
 
About those 17 years...

It’s relatively well-understood that the “seven years†part of the slogan is Tory’s own disputed estimate for SmartTrack. Far less understood: “17 years†is also arbitrary. No expert has actually said that the downtown relief line will take 17 years to build.The provincial transit agency, Metrolinx, has never issued a real estimate. The TTC hasn’t either. And the city’s chief planner, Jennifer Keesmaat, says the relief line — the first part of it, to be precise — can actually be completed in “between 12 and 15 years.â€

“In our opinion, 15 years is the high end,†Keesmaat said in an interview on Monday.

So who, exactly, is the source for Tory’s “17 years�

Olivia Chow.

In summary: Tory has based four months of misleading transit sloganeering on a number Chow mistakenly used in an interview on a campus radio station six months ago.
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ssiguy2 said:
There is one VERY brig difference between Tory's Smartrax and GO RER.........the fare.

Again GO RER will be useless to most Torontonians due to GO's high fare rates. Tory's Smartrax would actually be of use to Torontonians themselves so instead of just seeing electric trains go by they could actually board one.
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Metrolinx has said multiple times that there will be fare integration between TTC and GO RER. The extent of the integration is to be determined, but it's reasonable to say that the surcharge when transferring from TTC to RER could be anywhere from free, to a few cents, to a few dollars at most. I'm betting that it will be less than $1.50 and I can guarantee you that nobody transferring from TTC to RER will pay anywhere close to full GO fare.

This is a good deal considering that in many cities to even transfer from a subway to bus or a bus to bus you have to pay full fare again.

If John Tory is elected it is highly likely that there will be no surcharge when transferring from TTC to RER given that his SmartTrack plan is calling for TTC fare to be used.
 
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TheTigerMaster said:
Metrolinx has said multiple times that there will be fare integration between TTC and GO RER. The extent of the integration is to be determined, but it's reasonable to say that the surcharge when transferring from TTC to RER could be anywhere from free, to a few cents, to a few dollars at most. I'm betting that it will be less than $1.50 and I can guarantee you that nobody transferring from TTC to RER will pay anywhere close to full GO fare.
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But it's so much easier to continue to say "no one in Toronto will use GO" when you ignore facts like that… After all, how can you build a train-tram system when the entire impetus for that system can be solved by fare integration between the TTC and GO?

Using a status quo fare structure (which practically everyone has acknowledged will not stay the status quo) as a rationale for doubling up on transit in the same corridor, and spending millions or billions on it in the process, is a fool's errand. Move to where the puck will be, not where it is.
 
dowlingm said:
About those 17 years...
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Tory’s campaign acknowledged Tuesday that it got the “17 years” from the Chow interview. It also suggested all of this is her fault.

Chow’s spokesman, Jamey Heath, defended her reference to 2031. That year, he said, is repeatedly cited in TTC and Metrolinx reports as a date at which Union Station will be at capacity. He also attacked Tory for making things up.

“She also said she hoped it will be built faster,” Heath said, “and the chief planner says that we’re looking at a 12-to 15-year range. And if Mr. Tory had consulted transit experts instead of napkin-makers before making his plan, then his numbers would not literally be pulled out of thin air.”

It doesn’t appear Tory will be abandoning the erroneous but fruitful slogan any time soon. After conceding that Chow was the source of “17 years,” Galbraith concluded her response by, yes, repeating “17 years.”
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So basically, Tory knows that 17 years is not true, decides to blame Olivia Chow rather than to consult with transit experts, and then continue to repeat that lie anyway. What a dick.
 
MrsNesbitt said:
The fares for GO RER have not been announced yet, and one would think that for a project as expensive and ambitious as RER, Metrolinx would not be dumb enough to leave GO fares so prohibitively high as to make the end product as useless to Torontonians as what exists today.

Still, if Tory's grandstanding and lies with SmartTrack will help push RER forward at the municipal level, then at least some good will come from him. The man looks fairly inevitably to be the next mayor of Toronto, so it may be time to start mulling over mitigating his outlandish project and integrating it into something a little more reasonable and useful.
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Well I hope your right but if history is any indicator, your not.

Remember Metrolinx just spent $500 million on a UPX line that wildly expensive for anyone working there. To make matters worse, Metrolinx caved in to Pearson and now Pearson will get $2 for every ride on the UPX because they say it will lower their parking revenue. Only in Toronto would the regional transit authority actually charge people for taking transit to their airport to subsidize the people who drove.

Responsiveness, customer service, and coordination are probably not the first things people think of when they think of Metrolinx. This is why Tory's Smartrax, despite it's flaws, has traction amongst the public. They know that it will be a Toronto iniative so the fares will be standard TTC as he has stated. Let's face it there is nothing stopping GO from reducing their outrageous fares for Torontonians but that hasn't made them change their minds.

Smartrax and GO RER certainly have a lot in common but Torontonians know that Smartrax will be a service for Toronto's transit and they also know that Metrolinx will always view GO as a 905 service whether it's electrified or not. To Metrolinx, Toronto is just that gap you have to go thru from the 905 to Union and nothing more.

Torontonians like the idea of Smartrax because it will actually benefit them as Metrolinx has, and continues to, see GO and potential GO RER as a 905 service.
 
Tory just said in the debate on CP24 that he would continue with the Finch and Sheppard LRTs and build SmartTrack at the same time. Firmest indication yet that he supports those LRTs.
 
He also countered Chow's criticism of him not supporting the TTC improvements package, by countering that he does but wants to defer it to the budget committee as it is a lot of items and a lot of money and the proposals offer no way to fund the improvements. He says that he won't "tick the box next to it simply because I agree, like Chow would".



I'm increasingly becoming fond of Tory, he needs to come out in support of Eglinton Connects and I have no objections to his transit plans. (Besides SmartTrack, which I doubt will ever come into fruitation in its alleged for)
 
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