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2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

denfromoakvillemilton said:
I believe you, but I also believe Tory is more likely to cave on subways. Of course GO RER = SmartTrack so it looks like what he says will be built soon.
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I actually think Tory might just change tracks (pun intended) on the Scarborough subway post-election, if he can get a really solid committment from the province on implementing RER as close to his SmartTrack vision as possible.

But no point saying that out loud now with Scarborough votes at stake. Much easier to run for re-election with SmartTrack on the way, even if you cancelled the subway and extended the LRT. Also, he needs some kind of bargaining chip with the province. Passing on the subway to pay for SmartTrack might work.
 
kEiThZ said:
Not surprised. Suburban voters see real value in SmartTrack despite what this forum's most ardent voices might say. There's no other plan that promises an actually shorter commute and a real dent in gridlock. DRL won't do squat to take drivers off the road.
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Smart Track won't do squat to relieve overcrowding on the Yonge line.
 
kEiThZ said:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...ral-campaign-olivia-chow-falls-to-third-poll/

I keep saying that people care about getting somewhere faster and will vote for candidates who promise that. Here's proof.

Yet, nobody on this forum seems to believe me or think I'm right.

I still maintain that, all those suburban voters don't care as much about a DRL that will save them 5 mins and take them from supercrush load on Yonge to crush load on DRL. They want you to cut their commute times by a sizable chunk. And they want a real alternative to driving. If Wynne had owned suburban rail as an election promise, Tory would be in trouble today. Lucky for him, she didn't really promote GO RER plans as much....
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The Relief Line won't be operating at crush load. It will move only 14k pphpd
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I was reading though the DTRES and I just noticed that Tory's SmartTrack proposal will make crowding on Yonge Line worse than it is today.

See page 9:https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sour...4QFjAB&usg=AFQjCNH_rSVNQYOHteVZSNIy3tbsPqmCFw
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It does not say crowding will be worse on Yonge. It says demand will increase at stations south of Bloor. And that's actually because of increased reverse-peak traffic. Not necessarily a bad thing to use that capacity. We'll have more crowded downtown stations. But not necessarily the same peak packing you see today. And the report does say Yonge-Bloor will be relieved.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
GO is already working on fare integration between the systems. It's not that big of a deal.
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"Fare integration" meaning it will cost the same as a TTC fare and free transfers between like it was part of the TTC system?

It is a big deal if GO costs the same as the TTC and you can transfer between RER & other TTC modes like bus to subway today... how is it not?

You could take a TTC bus in Scarborough to the nearest RER/SmartTrack station, then take the RER to Union, then take the subway to say King & University for work all on one TTC fare.

If GO is actually doing the above then great.
 
kEiThZ said:
It does not say crowding will be worse on Yonge. It says demand will increase at stations south of Bloor. And that's actually because of increased reverse-peak traffic. Not necessarily a bad thing to use that capacity. We'll have more crowded downtown stations. But not necessarily the same peak packing you see today. And the report does say Yonge-Bloor will be relieved.
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How is increasing demand on Yonge south of Bloor any different from increasing crowding on Yonge south of Bloor.

The report says that the $8 Billion SmartTrack has the least relief potential of all evaluated options.
 
salsa said:
Smart Track won't do squat to relieve overcrowding on the Yonge line.
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Apparently, the TTC doesn't believe you. They think Yonge-Bloor would be relieved. And common sense says so. If I could get to Union 20 mins faster for the same fare, with fewer transfers, why would I take the subway network over SmartTrack? Why wouldn't Scarborough commuters just bus to their closest SmartTrack station and train down?

Of course, SmartTrack will induce more reverse-peak traffic. And it's debatable if this counts as "overcrowding".
 
kEiThZ said:
I actually think Tory might just change tracks (pun intended) on the Scarborough subway post-election, if he can get a really solid committment from the province on implementing RER as close to his SmartTrack vision as possible.

But no point saying that out loud now with Scarborough votes at stake. Much easier to run for re-election with SmartTrack on the way, even if you cancelled the subway and extended the LRT. Also, he needs some kind of bargaining chip with the province. Passing on the subway to pay for SmartTrack might work.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping this is the case. I'm hoping that part of that compromise is rebuilding the SRT elevated guideway into STC and adding a spur off the "SmartTrack" line to serve STC. It accomplishes all of the same goals as the subway (direct connection to the rest of the city, eliminates the transfer at Kennedy, etc), and gets people downtown a hell of a lot faster.

Even better would be building the spur up to Malvern along the SRT extension ROW.
 
ehlow said:
"Fare integration" meaning it will cost the same as a TTC fare and free transfers between like it was part of the TTC system?

It is a big deal if GO costs the same as the TTC and you can transfer between RER & other TTC modes like bus to subway today... how is it not?

You could take a TTC bus in Scarborough to the nearest RER/SmartTrack station, then take the RER to Union, then take the subway to say King & University for work all on one TTC fare.

If GO is actually doing the above then great.
Click to expand...

Metrolinx is evaluating the options. We should know soon enough

But getting fare integration to work isn't a big deal. It could happen with or without SmartTrack. No need to spend an additional $6 Billion on something that could be done for $ millions or less.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
How is increasing demand on Yonge south of Bloor any different from increasing crowding on Yonge south of Bloor.

The report says that the $8 Billion SmartTrack has the least relief potential of all evaluated options.
Click to expand...

Quite different. If you have 1000 people on one train heading to College station from Bloor and 500 each on two trains, one from Bloor and one from Union, those are completely different levels of crowding, even if the demand is the same. You have now increased demand south of Bloor, but not necessarily increased crowding on the trains themselves.


All this is not to say that I don't support a DRL. But I routinely get told in this forum that I shouldn't speak for Scarborough because apparently I don't get the mentality. I assert that I do and I understand why people like SmartTrack: it's a shorter trip to and from work.

The DRL is needed. But let's not forget that the genesis of the push for the DRL was relief of Yonge-Bloor. It's sort of evolved over time to thoughts about relieving the whole Yonge line. I don't think the public shares the same concern there. Riders are frustrated when they get to Yonge stations north of Bloor today and watch trains pass them because of crowding. The DRL won't do anything for that problem. SmartTrack does give some riders a bypass though.
 
Can someone who supports the $8 Billion SmartTrack explain to me why they support it over the nearly identical $1.6 Billion GO RER plan? The only difference is fare integration and additional stations, both of which would be incredibly cheap to implement. I have a hard time justifying the $6 Billion extra required for SmartTrack. It's wasted money.
 
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