2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Mayoral Race

[Greg Banks]

Has anyone played with Forum's last figures?
If you look at the poll using the figures by age Tory is at 46.6% and Ford is at 33.11%
I can't figure out how Forum got to 39-37 except if they used the totals by sex. There must be some type of tabulation error one way or the other......

 

[Silence&Motion]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_F8z7kRZ90

John Tory denies the existence white privilege. This after Chow has received multiple racist taunts at debates and town halls, as have several other minority candidates around the city. How can we expect someone to govern a city plagued by racial inequality (in terms of income, policing, etc) who won't even acknowledge it exists.

 

[nohostages]

Haven't you noticed that is Tory's modus operandi? He agrees with people. You tell him about all these social issues that need tackling, and he'll agree with you. You tell him that the Pride Parade should be defunded because it's attacking Israel and he'll agree with you. You tell him that it would be unfair to defund Pride because they don't control all members of the community and he'll agree with you. Rob Ford tells him he'd be a great mayor, and John Tory agreed with him.

It's no wonder so many love him ... he agrees with just about everyone.

We can't really judge him by his past actions - as he's never really succeeded in politics long enough to have any kind of leadership roll.

Is he socially conservative? Is is socially liberal? I'm sure he'd agree he's both. In reality, I don't think even he knows. But I'm sure what ever position staff take - he'll agree with it.

I disagree - but I'm no John Tory.

Hello nfitz! Nice balanced nuanced post from you. He has always been thought of as a flip flopper. I don't mind sober second thoughts, reevaluation after new info becomes available or evolving understanding, but Tory blows with the wind. Not leader material IMO. I hate to say it but he is the Ford stopper. Damn I like Goldie d more everyday. If the fascists weren't at the door I would be for Ari all the way. Do we think he is gay? I've never heard one way or the other.

 

[nohostages]

Sorry all. I have no idea how I double posted. My interest in Goldkind's orientation is just curiosity. My inner yenta likes to pigeonhole. Also he's incredibly cute, I might know a nice gal or guy for him.

 

[Greg Banks]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_F8z7kRZ90

John Tory denies the existence white privilege. This after Chow has received multiple racist taunts at debates and town halls, as have several other minority candidates around the city. How can we expect someone to govern a city plagued by racial inequality (in terms of income, policing, etc) who won't even acknowledge it exists.

Mixing apples and oranges aren't you?
Chow berated by the Ford minions is one thing.
A nuanced comment by J Tory is quite another...it is not fine and dandy to cut a comment off, plaster it on youtube then use it to promulgate some misguided notion....

 

[Silence&Motion]

Mixing apples and oranges aren't you?
Chow berated by the Ford minions is one thing.
A nuanced comment by J Tory is quite another...it is not fine and dandy to cut a comment off, plaster it on youtube then use it to promulgate some misguided notion....

Just found the full statement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B350l2WVzik Still doesn't change the fact that he explicitly denies the existence of white privilege. This is not apples and oranges. John Tory's own white privilege allows him to campaign without being subjected to hate speech. John Tory has never been called a "bitch", or told to "go back to China", or told that he should get AIDS and die.

You can't solve racialized inequality if you pretend not to see it. I'm not just talking about the campaign stuff. The much greater problem is racialized poverty, racial profiling, etc.

 

[Greg Banks]

Just found the full statement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B350l2WVzik Still doesn't change the fact that he explicitly denies the existence of white privilege. This is not apples and oranges. John Tory's own white privilege allows him to campaign without being subjected to hate speech. John Tory has never been called a "bitch", or told to "go back to China", or told that he should get AIDS and die.

You can't solve racialized inequality if you pretend not to see it. I'm not just talking about the campaign stuff. The much greater problem is racialized poverty, racial profiling, etc.

How is Tory not seeing it?
There has always been "privilege" whether by skin colour, clan, language, ear size or any other demographic you want to choose, it is what a person attempts to do to alleviate the situation on which they should be judged not nine words at the start of a comment to a reporter....
Oh, and you did listen to the debate did you not? While Chow is looking toward some unfathonable nirvana Tory is attempting to within real world constraints....and yes Chow's utopian view is what should be aimed for, in the meantime have realistic goals that can measured, timed and implemented....

 

[typezed]

JYou can't solve racialized inequality if you pretend not to see it.

Do you really think that Tory is unaware of inequality because some social justice jargon isn't as much part of his daily discourse as it is amongst NDP supporters (and a 20-something year old reporter)?

 

[Admiral Beez]

How is Tory not seeing it?
There has always been "privilege" whether by skin colour, clan, language, ear size or any other demographic you want to choose, it is what a person attempts to do to alleviate the situation on which they should be judged not nine words at the start of a comment to a reporter....

Indeed, is it not privilege that the tall men have an easier time finding female mates, or not privilege that beautiful people get better service and getter offers and opportunities. What of those with money, do they not carry privilege? I'm a tall, white, moderately well paid, England-born, modern dressing, straight male with all my hair, teeth and not fat.... do you not see the burden of privilege I must constantly carry, yet renounce?

 

[Electrify]

Ari Goldkind is a protest candidate. He sits at the sidelines and shouts insults at the front runners. They're good insults, and they come from a left-wing point of view, which I like. But Goldkind has never been under the same kind of pressure to present a clear platform like Chow or Tory. Chow, who started as the front runner, could never have run a campaign like Goldkind. And this is to say nothing of the obvious personality differences between the two.

Have you been to his website yet? He presents a clearer and more well rounded platform than any of the major candidates. The only candidate that I am aware of which came to this much level of detail is Soknacki.

 

[WislaHD]

John Tory full statement: “White privilege? No, I don’t know that it does. I think there are people left behind, and what I think they need is a hand up from people of all skin colours and religions and backgrounds.”

This teaches us to not listen to soundbites and (intentionally?) misleading twitter posts. Anyway, I've discussed this ad nauseam on reddit so I am not going to engage on this here.

 

[nfitz]

Has anyone played with Forum's last figures?
If you look at the poll using the figures by age Tory is at 46.6% and Ford is at 33.11%
I can't figure out how Forum got to 39-37 except if they used the totals by sex. There must be some type of tabulation error one way or the other......

I discussed this at length elsewhere.

It's grossly manipulated. Their total isn't a true total, but it's rebalanced by age. If you look the 16-year gap of 18-34 year olds was near 50% for Tory - but there were only 88 respondents. But the smaller 35-44, 45-54, and 55-65 groups were in favour of Tory, and had hundreds of people in each group.

2 of the other 3 pollsters show Ford in last place among 18-34. One shows a tie. Clearly Forum's 18-34 sample is off ... but they've used this to rebalance and bias the entire result. And then they have erroneously calculated the % error.

It's grossly incompetent, and I have to wonder who has their fingers in this to manipulate the results so much.

 

[adma]

John Tory reminds me of most of my clients. That is to say, well-off mid-town liberals. I don't think I ever saw him as being socially conservative.

If you want a barometer of where the most hardcore "John Tory = a good-mannered RoDoFo" mentality comes from, reflect on JT's recent photo op w/Senator Art Eggleton a bit--we're talking about a lot of the same people who still harbour a grudge against Mayor Eggs for defeating John Sewell and everyone after, for being Boss Godfrey's "Free Enterprise Coalition" Toronto-mayoral standard-bearer and for tilting against Pride, etc etc. (Yes, Eggleton was Catholic; however, even by his own admission, he wouldn't be the same way today etc etc re Pride. Just another mushy Liberal weathercock, he.)

 

[nohostages]

Mixing apples and oranges aren't you?
Chow berated by the Ford minions is one thing.
A nuanced comment by J Tory is quite another...it is not fine and dandy to cut a comment off, plaster it on youtube then use it to promulgate some misguided notion....

Not a Tory fan but this white privilege thing is a cheap shot. Who among us has a ready response for a question like that and if you do do you mind if we edit it any way we want in order to buttress our views?
Smacks of dirty pool.

 

[nohostages]

Indeed, is it not privilege that the tall men have an easier time finding female mates, or not privilege that beautiful people get better service and getter offers and opportunities. What of those with money, do they not carry privilege? I'm a tall, white, moderately well paid, England-born, modern dressing, straight male with all my hair, teeth and not fat.... do you not see the burden of privilege I must constantly carry, yet renounce?

Damn Beez, you could use that post as your profile on plenty of fish.