WislaHD
Superstar
I said this in the Ford Mayor thread, but Ari Goldkind is the candidate that Olivia Chow should've been.
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2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Mayoral Race
- Thread starter SJD_Toronto
- Start date
WislaHD
Superstar
I don't know how people can still call Tory socially right wing especially after tonight.
Watching the debate tonight, he has on pretty much every social issue agreed with Ari Goldkind and Olivia Chow (both left wing candidates) on social issues. They only disagreed on implementation and funding and how to treat the symptoms, not on the root causes of them or whether they need to be addressed.
To take a leaf from Thug, to continue calling Tory as "socially conservative" is disingenuous at best.
Watching the debate tonight, he has on pretty much every social issue agreed with Ari Goldkind and Olivia Chow (both left wing candidates) on social issues. They only disagreed on implementation and funding and how to treat the symptoms, not on the root causes of them or whether they need to be addressed.
To take a leaf from Thug, to continue calling Tory as "socially conservative" is disingenuous at best.
salsa
Senior Member
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
John Tory reminds me of most of my clients. That is to say, well-off mid-town liberals. I don't think I ever saw him as being socially conservative.
nfitz
Superstar
Haven't you noticed that is Tory's modus operandi? He agrees with people. You tell him about all these social issues that need tackling, and he'll agree with you. You tell him that the Pride Parade should be defunded because it's attacking Israel and he'll agree with you. You tell him that it would be unfair to defund Pride because they don't control all members of the community and he'll agree with you. Rob Ford tells him he'd be a great mayor, and John Tory agreed with him.
It's no wonder so many love him ... he agrees with just about everyone.
We can't really judge him by his past actions - as he's never really succeeded in politics long enough to have any kind of leadership roll.
Is he socially conservative? Is is socially liberal? I'm sure he'd agree he's both. In reality, I don't think even he knows. But I'm sure what ever position staff take - he'll agree with it.
I disagree - but I'm no John Tory.
WislaHD
Superstar
So you are telling me that Tory would follow through with council's decisions and wishes?
Great! Let's get him in as mayor ASAP!
Great! Let's get him in as mayor ASAP!
nfitz
Superstar
Even the city under Ford followed council's decisions.
I said that he'd follow through with staff's decisions and wishes. That's different.
I'm sure he'd make a fine mayor. Not embarrass us. Compliant to staff. Non-controversial. Quick to change his mind when he's made a mistake. It would be a relatively quiet 4 years, compared to the last 17.
But I don't think he'll hold anyone's feet to the fire like Miller did, or like Chow did when she was on the police board.
And I don't believe in rewarding mediocrity or those who have shown past support for the things like he's done.
Two landline polls so far today, First Public Research and Canadian something or other. The Canadian something or other one just asked three questions: age, male/female, which candidate (three options plus other). First Public Research asked those as well as most significant issue (transit, taxes, accountability and a couple of others) and also asked which councillor -- although they didn't give me the options from my ward. I've been called a few time about council races, but it's never the right ward, and it's never the same ward!
Olivia Chow also robocalled me twice yesterday.
Olivia Chow also robocalled me twice yesterday.
Greg Banks
Active Member
I've said this before J Tory learned at the feet of WG Davis...That type of leadership is exactly what you get in the next term should Tory be elected...it is something necessary after Lastman, Miller and R Ford a steady hand at the rudder of the City and I mean the whole city needs it....
nohostages
Active Member
Thats my definition of a fickle mushhead.
nohostages
Active Member
Hello nfitz! Nice balanced nuanced post from you. He has always been thought of as a flip flopper. I don't mind sober second thoughts, reevaluation after new info becomes available or evolving understanding, but Tory blows with the wind. Not leader material IMO. I hate to say it but he is the Ford stopper. Damn I like Goldkind more everyday. If the fascists weren't at the door I would be for Ari all the way. Do we think he is gay? I've never heard one way or the other.
nfitz
Superstar
Ford hasn't shown any polling that indicates he has a chance at winning. If you think otherwise, those who are trying to manipulate the polling to look as though one has to vote Tory to defeat Ford have won.
I've heard boo. But why would it matter? Given that Tory's victory looks to be quite overwhelming, I think everyone is safe to vote for whoever they think is best.
I'm finding Goldkind tempting as well. Shame that none of the polling is asking about him.
John_Dee
Active Member
Tory's an opportunist. That's hardly unheard of in the world of politics.
I can't say I especially like the man, but I do prefer him over the gang of criminal sociopaths known collectively as the Ford family. As we all know, our choice of Mayor could be worse. Much worse. Sadly, in these debased times, JT probably is the closest thing we'll get to an old-fashioned red tory.
I can't say I especially like the man, but I do prefer him over the gang of criminal sociopaths known collectively as the Ford family. As we all know, our choice of Mayor could be worse. Much worse. Sadly, in these debased times, JT probably is the closest thing we'll get to an old-fashioned red tory.
StatGeek
Active Member
There no secret sauce in that respects. We live in a central american style corrupt city, hell I would go as far and say nation. It's easy to "get away" when there is no rules to begin with. This nation as a whole never took white collar crime seriously , especially if you have money and political influence.
I've said it before, it's not surprise the Conrad Black and Alan Eagleson get busted in the States, yet somehow never was caught doing anything shady while north of the border (what a coincidence) just like it's a big coincidence that Rob gets busted in Florida and never here. It's also a coincidence that Karen Stintz rolls through a stop sign on a bicycle and gets ticketed but Ford parks, drives while reading, drives while drunk and nothing happens.
The American media focused so much of Ford antics, but the much bigger story is the society that allowed it to happen. You look at the list of American politicians who get punished for corruption and the lack of anything here, and it just shows how much of a joke we are.
Silence&Motion
Senior Member
Ari Goldkind is a protest candidate. He sits at the sidelines and shouts insults at the front runners. They're good insults, and they come from a left-wing point of view, which I like. But Goldkind has never been under the same kind of pressure to present a clear platform like Chow or Tory. Chow, who started as the front runner, could never have run a campaign like Goldkind. And this is to say nothing of the obvious personality differences between the two.