2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Mayoral Race

[denfromoakvillemilton]

It's not the NDP association. Joe Cressy win will her old council seat and he's NDP. She has run a crappy campaign, hired the wrong people, and has no real interest in being mayor. End of story.

 

[ehlow]

It's not the NDP association. Joe Cressy win will her old council seat and he's NDP. She has run a crappy campaign, hired the wrong people, and has no real interest in being mayor. End of story.

Some parts of the city are much more comfortable with the NDP than others though. We're talking Trinity-Spadina, downtown. That doesn't reflect the city as a whole, just like northern Etobicoke doesn't.

Also a Liberal (Adam Vaughan) took her old MP seat in that riding, and a Liberal won that area provincially too (Han Dong). And Han Dong endorsed Tory.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Some parts of the city are much more comfortable with the NDP than others though. We're talking Trinity-Spadina, downtown. That doesn't reflect the city as a whole, just like northern Etobicoke doesn't.

Also a Liberal (Adam Vaughan) took her old MP seat in that riding, and a Liberal won that area provincially too (Han Dong). And Han Dong endorsed Tory.

Very true, and I was not trying to say you were wrong, but I feel it's a bad candidate problem more then anything. Chow, and Horvath, could not connect with the people. Wynne could. Tory is doing it. FWIW If Olivia really wanted to be mayor she could have been. You can tell John Tory wants to win this.

 

[ehlow]

Very true, and I was not trying to say you were wrong, but I feel it's a bad candidate problem more then anything. Chow, and Horvath, could not connect with the people. Wynne could. Tory is doing it. FWIW If Olivia really wanted to be mayor she could have been. You can tell John Tory wants to win this.

Fair enough. I do think there was a large part of Toronto that immediately said "Olivia Chow from the NDP? No way".

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I don't know how you can claim that Tory is a Liberal. He was the leader of the PC party in Ontario, and if he wasn't exactly similar to the likes of Randy Hillier or Frank Klees, that doesn't make him centrist, whatever his public image may suggest. He's also a flip-flopper who supported the Fords in 2010, and even was saying nice things about Doug last year.

Maybe he does fit in with the Liberals, inasmuch as he has no particular principles and would happily go wherever the (pandering) wind takes him.

In any case, Miller wasn't any less an NDPer and was elected twice.

Tory maybe not big a Big L Liberal, but I think there is also a case that Big L Liberal is more Red Tory, which is more or less the political default in Ontario historically. Wynne locking in JT and the rest of the 905 mayors would basically relegate PC to their rural Ontario base with no inroads. Like what are they going to do? Invite an ex-leader of the party which certain wings have basically burnt bridges with to lead? Good luck with that.

AoD

 

[Greg Banks]

Tory maybe not big a Big L Liberal, but I think there is also a case that Big L Liberal is more Red Tory, which is more or less the political default in Ontario historically. Wynne locking in JT and the rest of the 905 mayors would basically relegate PC to their rural Ontario base with no inroads. Like what are they going to do? Invite an ex-leader of the party which certain wings have basically burnt bridges with to lead? Good luck with that.

AoD

John Tory learned his conservatism at the feet of first and foremost WG Davis but also John Robarts, Robert Stanfield and Joe Clark. If that is not fertile ground for social bedrock of Red Toryism I don't know what is

 

[TheTigerMaster]

A slightly interesting observation:: Many now consider JT to be a "red tory" Liberal whie many also consider the OLP to now be left of the NDP since the last election. The two positions would traditionally conflict with each other. Any thoughts on that?

 

[nfitz]

I too agree that John Tory is more OPL that PC. We need to remember that PC has taken a sharp turn to the right since JT was kicked from the party and that many in the party considered him too left wing to be leader.

Randy Hillier considered him too left-wing.

I don't recall Tory being kicked out of the party? Is there a reference for this?

And I don't see Tory being particularly Liberal. He may not be part of the PC party's right-wing, but he's made some pretty right-wing promises over the years. Funding for religious schools, fining panhandlers, hiring more police, more privatization of health care ...

 

[Greg Banks]

A slightly interesting observation:: Many now consider JT to be a "red tory" Liberal whie many also consider the OLP to now be left of the NDP since the last election. Any thoughts on that?

You do understand a Red Tory is above all fiscally conservative any all socially liberal programmes stem from and are a zero sum game...A true Red Tory of the Robarts/Stanfield/Clark genre adhere to that process WG Davis slightly different in that he looked at the long game and I haven't seen anything from John Tory that would disuade me from believing he is a Davis Red....

 

[TheTigerMaster]

So socially liberal that he threatened to defund Pride over a Palestinian rights group (which puts him among the most socially conservative members of city council).

I think people confuse political correctness with actually being progressive. Sure, Tory is polite. He doesn't use ethnic slurs. He's not usually overtly misogynistic. But what are Tory's actual progressive bona fides? What has he actually said about social justice? What is his plan for dealing with the 30% of children in the city who live in poverty? What is his plan to shrink the carbon footprint of the city? Does he care at all about climate change? He has no plans to create bicycle lanes. In fact, his only plan is to cancel bicycle lanes on Eglinton, which puts him in Rob Ford territory.

He's not cancelling bike lanes on Eglinton. His problem is with the 1.5 km central section (Mt Pleasant to Ave Rd) car lane configuration. This configuration can easily be changed to what the other 95% of Eglinton Connects has, 2 lanes in each direction plus wide sidewalks and bike lanes, by removing the centre turn lane and parking lay-bys.

He's not "progressive", or as progressive/left as Chow obviously, and I doubt anyone is claiming he is. He's more in line with mainstream Liberal (by which I mean Liberal party), which is partly why he's winning. He's in the centre of the political spectrum, which I think the majority of Toronto falls within. He's not an extreme conservative (which Chow supporters seem to want to portray), nor is he as left-wing as Chow. He has support from both Liberals and Conservatives.

One of the reasons I think Chow isn't doing well is her association with NDP. She's basically too left-wing and progressive for many Torontonians, in my opinion.

So socially liberal that he threatened to defund Pride over a Palestinian rights group (which puts him among the most socially conservative members of city council).

I think people confuse political correctness with actually being progressive. Sure, Tory is polite. He doesn't use ethnic slurs. He's not usually overtly misogynistic. But what are Tory's actual progressive bona fides? What has he actually said about social justice? What is his plan for dealing with the 30% of children in the city who live in poverty? What is his plan to shrink the carbon footprint of the city? Does he care at all about climate change? He has no plans to create bicycle lanes. In fact, his only plan is to cancel bicycle lanes on Eglinton, which puts him in Rob Ford territory.

I think it's fair to say that the social justice types tend to traditionally lean more NDP than Liberal. Tory's not a biggot, but neither is he a social justice type; he's the perfect middle of the road social Liberal.

 

[salsa]

Welcome back nfitz

 

[ShonTron]

The Liberal Party is a big-tent party. One that could attract a social-justice type like Gerard Kennedy but also a corporatist conservative like Paul Martin or John Manley. Tory would be comfortable in that corner of the big tent.

The provincial Liberals also hang around with a lot of conservatives when politically convenient. They kept that thug Julian Fantino employed, gave him the OPP Commish job, perhaps to keep him from running against Sorbara. They give jobs to that slimey POS Paul Godfrey. Wynne (who has kept her mouth shut) is more on the left-liberal end of the party, but she has allowed some of her ministers to shill.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

You do understand a Red Tory is above all fiscally conservative any all socially liberal programmes stem from and are a zero sum game...A true Red Tory of the Robarts/Stanfield/Clark genre adhere to that process WG Davis slightly different in that he looked at the long game and I haven't seen anything from John Tory that would disuade me from believing he is a Davis Red....

Noted.

Back when Davis was in office I wasn't even a gleam in my parents eyes, so please do forgive me if I say anything ignorant. I'm doing my best to piece together my knowledge about the time from what I've been told by others and the bits I've found online.

That said, wouldn't it be fair to say that Davis Reds, such as Tory, would fall under the right side of the socially Liberal (OLP) category in 2014?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Randy Hillier considered him too left-wing.

I don't recall Tory being kicked out of the party? Is there a reference for this?

And I don't see Tory being particularly Liberal. He may not be part of the PC party's right-wing, but he's made some pretty right-wing promises over the years. Funding for religious schools, fining panhandlers, hiring more police, more privatization of health care ...

Fair enough.

I've been having a hard time considering Tory particularly social conservative.... He doesn't seem "radial" enough

Perhaps I've been conditioned to incorrectly equate PC social conservatism to the rough around the edges, Fordian politically incorrect types.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Welcome back nfitz

Yes, welcome.