2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Mayoral Race

[Silence&Motion]

Stop making excuses for her. She should be ahead of these two dunderheads by 15 points right now. You have to have emotion to speak up. Olivia should try it sometime.

So, you're saying that Chow should be thriving in an environment where she has to match two talk radio hosts in a shout-fest debate, while the crowd boos and shouts ethnic slurs at her?

There is a trend here. Barbara Hall, Jane Pitfield, Karen Stintz, and Olivia Chow are all accomplished politicians on both sides of the political divide who have crashed and burned in mayoral elections. I think the municipal campaign format in this city has something to do with this. In all four cases, these women candidates saw their support steadily decline throughout the campaign period.

And before anyone brings up the fact that (old) Toronto had two female mayors, just take a look at female representation on city council according to the old cities:
Scarborough - 1 of 10 councilors
Etobicoke/York - 2 of 9
North York - 4 of 11
Toronto/East York - 8 of 14

Old Toronto is definitely the exception when it comes to electing women to council.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

S&M:

Well, like it or hate it, leadership qualities include the ability to take charge of the situation. Chow didn't manage to do that. Someone with a bit more fire would have challenged that racist epithet headon instead of letting it pass.

And anyways, women as mayor isn't an anomaly in the rest of the GTA (Hazel and Susan F) - so I don't think it is an issue of overt sexism per se.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

Thug doesn't have a 10-month campaign to showcase is disdain for municipal politics either. He could really pull this off.

I don't think so. As much as I fail to understand people who fall for the use-car salesman schtick ... Doug doesn't have this mysterious quality. Yes, he may gain a few votes because he's been on the wagon for many years, and his drug dealing days are far behind him.

However, I think he'll also lose some, for not having Rob's appeal - or even working as hard as Rob did as councillor. At least Rob seemed to genuinely care for the constituents that he was trying to help on an individual basis. I don't get that vibe from Doug.

 

[nfitz]

And anyways, women as mayor isn't an anomaly in the rest of the GTA (Hazel and Susan F) - so I don't think it is an issue of overt sexism per se.

The Toronto focus on debates does seem rather bizarre. How many debates did Hazel ever do? If the number is bigger than none.

The campaign should be a lot shorter. No signups until Labour Day. A handful of debates that are properly moderated. If the audience isn't behaving it should be turfed. You don't see that kind of shit in provincial debates.

 

[kEiThZ]

@Watts

Thanks for fighting off nfitz's bullying.

It's why I rarely bother with UT much these days. Life's too short to waste on trolls and nobody seems to have a problem with nfitz turning the forum into his personal soapbox with unlimited rights to slander any public figure or even other UT member he doesn't like.

I sometimes wonder if nfitz is sincere enough... Why not leave town? After all, I know I couldn't live in a place where I thought 30% of the population were bigots. Which by nfitz definition is the case with Toronto. Indeed, based on nfitz definition and latest polling, the proportion of Toronto that are racist, anti-gay bigots is going up.

Nick, if you need bus fare to leave town let us know.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I sometimes wonder if nfitz is sincere enough... Why not leave town? After all, I know I couldn't live in a place where I thought 30% of the population were bigots. Which by nfitz definition is the case with Toronto. Indeed, based on nfitz definition and latest polling, the proportion of Toronto that are racist, anti-gay bigots is going up.

Let's not pretend that you haven't used the race card when it suits your purposes either:
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...k-so-Expensive-And-Scarborough-so-cheap/page3
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...nicipal-Election-Toronto-Transit-Plans/page34

You can't suck and blow at the same time

AoD

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Called it. Like I said, Doug is Rob without the baggage.

Doug the drug dealer and liar is Rob without the baggage???? Hahahaha...

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

S&M:

Well, like it or hate it, leadership qualities include the ability to take charge of the situation. Chow didn't manage to do that. Someone with a bit more fire would have challenged that racist epithet headon instead of letting it pass.

And anyways, women as mayor isn't an anomaly in the rest of the GTA (Hazel and Susan F) - so I don't think it is an issue of overt sexism per se.

AoD

+1. If Chow interrupts the debate to lay down a fiery put down -- "Go back to China? You crawl back under your rock. Toronto is MY city, where I grew up. Nobody 's chasing me away from MY city!" -- she wins the night hands down. "I didn't hear it" when everyone else did? It's just poor politics.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I think Rob's ceiling was 30%.

Thug can quite possibly be perceived as Rob without the drugs and scandals. The Ford message does resonate well with the suburbs and other disenfranchised people, and the ones who were disgusted by Ford's personal life can come back to Thug. Thug doesn't have a 10-month campaign to showcase is disdain for municipal politics either. He could really pull this off.

Ultimately, I don't care about left/right wing ideologues in municipal politics, I think they don't matter for shit. Tory has the best chance to beat Ford and Chow is hurting Tory both in debates by attacking solely him, and by splitting the non-Ford vote. I also cannot see a scenario where Chow can get back into this race.

If the best that said subset of the disenfranchised can do is gravitate towards someone along the lines of the Fords, perhaps it is best that the rest of the city further marginalize said subset of individuals into irrelevance.

AoD

Called it. Like I said, Doug is Rob without the baggage.

No surprise there, hardcore FN need some kind of personal anchor. As to baggage - I'd say he inherited all of it - it's not just about smoking crack anymore.

AoD

Well Rob's ceiling is 30 percent. Doug has none of this problems. Alvin you are probably right, but does this not speak to the worship of celebrity as a whole?

So, you're saying that Chow should be thriving in an environment where she has to match two talk radio hosts in a shout-fest debate, while the crowd boos and shouts ethnic slurs at her?

There is a trend here. Barbara Hall, Jane Pitfield, Karen Stintz, and Olivia Chow are all accomplished politicians on both sides of the political divide who have crashed and burned in mayoral elections. I think the municipal campaign format in this city has something to do with this. In all four cases, these women candidates saw their support steadily decline throughout the campaign period.

And before anyone brings up the fact that (old) Toronto had two female mayors, just take a look at female representation on city council according to the old cities:
Scarborough - 1 of 10 councilors
Etobicoke/York - 2 of 9
North York - 4 of 11
Toronto/East York - 8 of 14

Old Toronto is definitely the exception when it comes to electing women to council.

S&M:

Well, like it or hate it, leadership qualities include the ability to take charge of the situation. Chow didn't manage to do that. Someone with a bit more fire would have challenged that racist epithet headon instead of letting it pass.

And anyways, women as mayor isn't an anomaly in the rest of the GTA (Hazel and Susan F) - so I don't think it is an issue of overt sexism per se.

AoD

@Watts

Thanks for fighting off nfitz's bullying.

It's why I rarely bother with UT much these days. Life's too short to waste on trolls and nobody seems to have a problem with nfitz turning the forum into his personal soapbox with unlimited rights to slander any public figure or even other UT member he doesn't like.

I sometimes wonder if nfitz is sincere enough... Why not leave town? After all, I know I couldn't live in a place where I thought 30% of the population were bigots. Which by nfitz definition is the case with Toronto. Indeed, based on nfitz definition and latest polling, the proportion of Toronto that are racist, anti-gay bigots is going up.

Nick, if you need bus fare to leave town let us know.

Let's not pretend that you haven't used the race card when it suits your purposes either:
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...k-so-Expensive-And-Scarborough-so-cheap/page3

AoD

+1. If Chow interrupts the debate to lay down a fiery put down -- "Go back to China? You crawl back under your rock. Toronto is MY city, where I grew up. Nobody 's chasing me away from MY city!" -- she wins the night hands down. "I didn't hear it" when everyone else did? It's just poor politics.

So Silence, you really think she could have not defended herself there. Either you think she's a weak debater or they should have set aside more time for her. This was a poor performance on top of a poor performance. Riverdale and Alvin have it here. She is not a leader, and frankly she didn't care someone called her out like that, otherwise she would have said something.

Doug the drug dealer and liar is Rob without the baggage???? Hahahaha...

Rob's problems are an ongoing thing to today, if we go by the news this morning. Doug did something many kids did 30 years ago. No comparison.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Let's not pretend that you haven't used the race card when it suits your purposes either:
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...k-so-Expensive-And-Scarborough-so-cheap/page3
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...nicipal-Election-Toronto-Transit-Plans/page34

You can't suck and blow at the same time

AoD

Alvin I'm glad you have nothing on me (yet) !

 

[kEiThZ]

So, you're saying that Chow should be thriving in an environment where she has to match two talk radio hosts in a shout-fest debate, while the crowd boos and shouts ethnic slurs at her?

There is a trend here. Barbara Hall, Jane Pitfield, Karen Stintz, and Olivia Chow are all accomplished politicians on both sides of the political divide who have crashed and burned in mayoral elections. I think the municipal campaign format in this city has something to do with this. In all four cases, these women candidates saw their support steadily decline throughout the campaign period.

And before anyone brings up the fact that (old) Toronto had two female mayors, just take a look at female representation on city council according to the old cities:
Scarborough - 1 of 10 councilors
Etobicoke/York - 2 of 9
North York - 4 of 11
Toronto/East York - 8 of 14

Old Toronto is definitely the exception when it comes to electing women to council.

Please. There's no anti-women agenda in the burbs. It's realities of incumbency, not enough women running or running with the wrong platform.

Take my ward. I detest by councillor: Raymond Cho. He's useless. But he won't retire and he just can't win any other election. He's basically run under every party's banner at the federal and provincial level. He survives on incumbency at the municipal level.

Meanwhile, my ward elected an NDP MP who is young, female and Tamil. The other impressive showing in that election was a female CPC candidate who spoke several languages of the constituents. The election of this NDP MP was made possible by the retirement of the well respected sitting Liberal MP with over two decades in office.

Women can get elected when incumbents retire and they run solid campaigns. But don't expect anyone to vote for a female candidate just because of her gender.

 

[nfitz]

@Watts

Thanks for fighting off nfitz's bullying.

I don't see the need to be making personal attacks. I haven't ever bullied anyone.

Disagreeing with people isn't bullying. Point out inconvenient facts people don't want to hear isn't bullying.

I'm amused that when I point out Rob Ford's racism, bigotry, and lying I get little reaction (these days at least ... I'm amused the some of same people who seem to agree with me these days were jumping down my throat 4 years ago). When I point out Oliva Chow's lies I get little reaction. But when I point out that John Tory is right-wing, has a history of supporting racists and attacking people's disabilities for political gain, people are all over me.

... nobody seems to have a problem with nfitz turning the forum into his personal soapbox with unlimited rights to slander any public figure or even other UT member he doesn't like.

I have never slandered anyone here. Surely by definition it's impossible to slander someone on a public bulletin board. I don't think you know what slander means.

I think you may have libelled me though.

After all, I know I couldn't live in a place where I thought 30% of the population were bigots.

If I lived in Etobicrack I would. I doubt that Ford will hit anywhere close to 30% in my neighbourhood.

 

[Electrify]

If the best that said subset of the disenfranchised can do is gravitate towards someone along the lines of the Fords, perhaps it is best that the rest of the city further marginalize said subset of individuals into irrelevance.

AoD

Like traffic, it feeds into itself. Making them more disenfranchised will make them more likely to support people of the likes of Ford.

Was listening to CBC Radio this morning and they had Roger Keil from York University and he made a good point. Yes there is a suburban/urban divide, but the current mayor and his brother are doing nothing to try and sew them together.

 

[salsa]

Let's not pretend that you haven't used the race card when it suits your purposes either:
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...k-so-Expensive-And-Scarborough-so-cheap/page3
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...nicipal-Election-Toronto-Transit-Plans/page34

You can't suck and blow at the same time

AoD

Haha, zing!

 

[kEiThZ]

Let's not pretend that you haven't used the race card when it suits your purposes either:
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...k-so-Expensive-And-Scarborough-so-cheap/page3
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...nicipal-Election-Toronto-Transit-Plans/page34

You can't suck and blow at the same time

AoD

Go to the real estate forum. There are members who actively call Scarborough "scary". I wonder why that is?

More to the point, I don't label others and I don't label others by association (the mere association of voting). Do I think there's an element of disdain for other socioeconomic classes by some in this city? Sure.

Do I label 30% of the population as bigots (like nfitz does)? No. I keep my disagreements to the policies I disagree with.

And by nfitz's definition, 70% of Toronto (all who vote for Ford or Tory) are bigots. So again, why does Nick Fitzgerald choose to live in a town where he sincerely believes 70% of the population is composed of bigots?

Your defence does explain why he gets away with his incessant bullying....