GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Maybe GO should expand service if they want more riders.

 

[ShonTron]

Maybe GO should expand service if they want more riders.

Genius!

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Out here in Pickering we've got a development called Durham Live being pushed right now - it'll develop a massive greenfield in a mostly industrial area into an "entertainment complex" featuring an office tower, performing arts centre, film studios, casino, etc.

Faux-urbanism to be sure, but what really galls me is that in all of their advertisements, Durham Live is claiming they will get an "express GO station" built to service their development, seeing as the greenfield is located immediately south of the Lakeshore East line between Pickering and Ajax stations.

Take a look on Google Maps at the intersection of Bayly St and Church St S. On the northwest corner is where Durham Live will be developed.

What are your thoughts on their claims of a GO station? I figure that, seeing as Pickering and Ajax are already among the closest-spaced stations on the whole network (and since GO doesn't build stations to serve single developments in isolated areas), the chances of the station being built are pretty close to nil.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Genius!

Haha, I know what your saying, but it just seems ridiculous that they want more people to use the system but they aren't actually going to see any all day train service outside Lakeshore for 4 more years.

Out here in Pickering we've got a development called Durham Live being pushed right now - it'll develop a massive greenfield in a mostly industrial area into an "entertainment complex" featuring an office tower, performing arts centre, film studios, casino, etc.

Faux-urbanism to be sure, but what really galls me is that in all of their advertisements, Durham Live is claiming they will get an "express GO station" built to service their development, seeing as the greenfield is located immediately south of the Lakeshore East line between Pickering and Ajax stations.

Take a look on Google Maps at the intersection of Bayly St and Church St S. On the northwest corner is where Durham Live will be developed.

What are your thoughts on their claims of a GO station? I figure that, seeing as Pickering and Ajax are already among the closest-spaced stations on the whole network (and since GO doesn't build stations to serve single developments in isolated areas), the chances of the station being built are pretty close to nil.

That sounds ridiculous. I feel that Durham should focus on actual urbanity not band aid measures. That station would slow down service on lakeshore east, already the busiest line.

 

[wopchop]

What are your thoughts on their claims of a GO station? I figure that, seeing as Pickering and Ajax are already among the closest-spaced stations on the whole network (and since GO doesn't build stations to serve single developments in isolated areas), the chances of the station being built are pretty close to nil.

Not a chance. You would probably be able to see Ajax GO STation from this hypothetical station.

 

[WislaHD]

If Torontonians ever decided they should actually pay for transit improvements maybe operation shortfalls wouldn't be such an issue. Queen's Park this and Ottawa that in terms of funding but the idea of Toronto actually having a pure transit tax seems to be heresy. Toronto bitched at McGuinty forever to get revenue tools so the province finally brought in The City of Toronto Act but hasn't done anything with those new found taxing powers.

Toronto's subway system is embarrassingly small but conversely it's commuter rail system is quite large and extensive even compared to many of it's contemporaries. Despite this Toronto's transit usage is high while GO Rail ridership is quite low especially considering it has 440 km of rail on 7 different lines. GO Rail is the future of rapid transit in Greater Toronto but they won't take it until the service is better {which it is becoming} and the fares drop significantly. The latter part is the real issue for most especially in the city itself where GO is astronomically priced. Fare integration will help but still be too expensive an option for most transit dependent people. This could quickly remedied by a transit tax but that would require political will and public support which are both sadly lacking.

We don't need a transit tax. We need a tax rebate on what we already pay the province and use that towards funding Toronto transit.

 

[doady]

Subsidizing TTC-GO transfers will cost the province a lot assuming a muge number of TTC riders currently transferring to/from GO. But they aren't, so it won't.

Besides, any subsidy of TTC fares would be more than offset by the obscenely high fares GO charges within Toronto, e.g. $4.77 from Mimico to Union with Presto. Adding $0.75 to that won't make the trip any cheaper

 

[Platform 27]

Subsidizing TTC-GO transfers will cost the province a lot assuming a muge number of TTC riders currently transferring to/from GO. But they aren't, so it won't.

The current transfer rate is completely and utterly irrelevant. What matters is the potential transfer rate once a subsidy is in place, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that depending on what the price it's offered at, it could be a much, much bigger volume of people.

Besides, any subsidy of TTC fares would be more than offset by the obscenely high fares GO charges within Toronto, e.g. $4.77 from Mimico to Union with Presto. Adding $0.75 to that won't make the trip any cheaper

The TTC charges $5.70 for its closest equivalent to Union-Mimico GO service, the 145 Humber Bay Express bus.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Not a chance. You would probably be able to see Ajax GO STation from this hypothetical station.

You would. My municipality is out of its mind here.

 

[ShonTron]

The current transfer rate is completely and utterly irrelevant. What matters is the potential transfer rate once a subsidy is in place, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that depending on what the price it's offered at, it could be a much, much bigger volume of people.

Which in one way, wouldn't be a big deal, and something that the TTC couldn't handle. In the AM peak, most transfers from GO would be to Downsview and Finch-bound trains, mostly office and hospital workers headed to stations north of Queen Street (Queen's Park, St. Patrick, Dundas, etc) and students headed to U of T, Ryerson and OCAD, perhaps George Brown's Casa Loma campus. Trains headed from Union Station in the AM peak have capacity to spare.

I imagine the 6 Bay bus would get extra demand, especially to George Brown's waterfront building and to Bay/Wellesley. That would cost the TTC money especially if the bus is full of co-fare riders. I think the TTC could probably break even and handle demand if it just allowed GO to-and-from subway discounted fares.

 

[gweed123]

Which in one way, wouldn't be a big deal, and something that the TTC couldn't handle. In the AM peak, most transfers from GO would be to Downsview and Finch-bound trains, mostly office and hospital workers headed to stations north of Queen Street (Queen's Park, St. Patrick, Dundas, etc) and students headed to U of T, Ryerson and OCAD, perhaps George Brown's Casa Loma campus. Trains headed from Union Station in the AM peak have capacity to spare.

I imagine the 6 Bay bus would get extra demand, especially to George Brown's waterfront building and to Bay/Wellesley. That would cost the TTC money especially if the bus is full of co-fare riders. I think the TTC could probably break even and handle demand if it just allowed GO to-and-from subway discounted fares.

Perhaps an easy way to sort it out is whoever gets tapped onto first gets the fare. Yes, in the AM peak the TTC would be losing out on money, but in the PM peak (assuming it's a reverse trip), all of those people would be tapping onto the TTC first. If the "he who gets tapped onto first gets paid" policy is used, each company would get the fare revenue from one of those two trips. For the TTC, that may actually end up being a net plus, because a lot of those people today choose to walk because they don't want to pay the extra full fare. At least under this scenario they'll get getting one fare instead of zero.

 

[ssiguy2]

A tax rebate........from whom?

In case you hadn't notice Queen's Park is broke. Queen's Park is already funding 100% of the Eglinton LRT a situation that the rest of the province like Ottawa and Kitchener could only dream about.

This is the reason transit in Toronto has gone no where in the last 30 years...........Torontonians can't seem to get their heads around the idea that you get what you pay for. What makes you think the situation is any different in the rest of the country or particularly the rest of Ontario?

GO integration will cost money and if Torontonians want it they are going to have to pay.

Why not bring in tolls on the DVP or Gardiner? A flat $50 car tax per year would allow all Torontonians free access on all roads but they would charge any vehicle that is not part the 416. A small gas tax would raise a lot as would higher parking fees. This crazy idea of waiting for Queen's Park or Ottawa to come to Toronto's rescue is absurd.

Every other city on the planet understands that improving transit requires more money and to expect senior levels of government to pay the way is both childish and selfish. Why should, for example, people in Vancouver have to pay Ottawa taxes so they can give the TTC money because, unlike Vancouverites, Torontonians refuse to pay for it themselves?

There is a reason why Vancouver's rapid transit and overall transit system has expanded by huge amounts over the last 30 years and Toronto's has remained stagnant............they are willing to pay for it. In short, Vancouverites are willing to put their money where their mouths are and Toronto isn't and hence both cities have gotten what they deserve.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

There is a reason why Vancouver's rapid transit and overall transit system has expanded by huge amounts over the last 30 years and Toronto's has remained stagnant............they are willing to pay for it. In short, Vancouverites are willing to put their money where their mouths are and Toronto isn't and hence both cities have gotten what they deserve.

When I went to Vancouver, seeing their transit system and talking to locals about planned expansions...it was the only thing I hated about the place. They've got their stuff together on transit (and biking too).

 

[doady]

The current transfer rate is completely and utterly irrelevant.

If you want to determine the financial impact of co-fare with future transfers, you have to consider the current transfers. Otherwise, you are comparing to nothing, which is stupid.

What matters is the potential transfer rate once a subsidy is in place, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that depending on what the price it's offered at, it could be a much, much bigger volume of people.

It's a bigger volume of people paying way overpriced fares. It will not be a strain on the provincial budget.

The TTC charges $5.70 for its closest equivalent to Union-Mimico GO service, the 145 Humber Bay Express bus.

A bus in mixed traffic in the streets of downtown Toronto in the midst of rush hour is a lot different than 12-car train operating in its own ROW. It's not in any way equivalent.

 

[TOareaFan]

A bus in mixed traffic in the streets of downtown Toronto in the midst of rush hour is a lot different than 12-car train operating in its own ROW. It's not in any way equivalent.

I think the point was that at $5.52 (assuming a $0.75 co-fare on TTC) the GO train to TTC is very reasonably priced compared to that $5.70 bus.