Finch West Line 6 LRT

[felix123]

From JRUrbaneNetwork:

 

[hw621]

From JRUrbaneNetwork:
View attachment 701401

Might as well put Eglinton

 

[Northern Light]

I think the speed (or lack of) issues here have been well documented and discussed, so I will only mention in passing an anecdote (not evidence) from a trip to Amsterdam, where the tram passes though pedestrianized streets in spots......at speeds exceeding 40km/ph.

You hear the warning bell/horn....and you're expected to get the hell off the track because the train is not going slowly just in case........

*****

That anecdote offered, we need some proper commitment to investigative journalism here at UT, so someone must ask the clear and pressing question:

@Edward Skira how was your Line 6 branded cookie?

 

[Northern Light]

Yikes...

What is the chance of an extension to Yonge or Don Mills? Or the Airport?

Don Mills is a generation away, if ever.

The airport is very much in the cards, but not in the near-term list of projects; and if they don't iron out the problems here w/speed/travel time, it will die quickly.

 

[christiesplits]

It almost feels like we should organize some protest at City Hall lol

I suspect yesterday's reaction to the speed, combined with the Crosstown's expected slow speed in the at-grade sections next year, will create enough pressure for the TTC to make improvements, including transit signal priority.

 

[JJTheJetPln]

I suspect yesterday's reaction to the speed, combined with the Crosstown's expected slow speed in the at-grade sections next year, will create enough pressure for the TTC to make improvements, including transit signal priority.

There's many here that are saying that it's not up to TTC to do TSP, but city council.

If that's the case, everyone needs to start emailing their city council rep daily so this issue is brought to the forefront.

I fear that even TTC isn't able to talk about this, yet many have heard through the grapevine that it's city council fault why it's not active despite having everything ready to go.

 

[H4F33Z]

Lemme remind everyone about a motion moved and passed by the mayor to look into the implementation of signal priority on Eglinton and report back to council in October.

....They did not report back in October 2025's meeting

I'd recommend everyone call the mayor's office. If this is Finch right now, this is going to be Eglinton too.

 

[Bordercollie]

Okay. You have a new vehicle. You drive slowly not to scratch it. But, wasn't that why the operators have had almost of month of test runs to get "used" to it? Time to get it out of first gear.

But that's what the 30 day burn in was for.

And also if they can do something called "timed lights" which means if the train gets to the signal within a certain block of time it will get a green light. It can also be tweaked so that it the train is delayed, it will optimize the signals so that the train can catch up and hold the cars.

It requires will power to do that

 

[Parkdalian]

I know there’s a lot of reviews already, but I rode it this morning during rush hour, and here’s my take:

• It took about 50 minutes to run end to end.
• There was almost no one commuting on the line.
• The main problem for me was the sheer number of stops. 18!!! That’s more than the entire Ontario line.
• Each stop took about 1-2 minutes to cycle through, so just with the 16 stops between terminal stations, about half the time spent was at a “station”
• The three stops at Albion Mills within sight of each other? Whhhhhhyyyyyy
• The left hand lane turning is annoying, but only slowed my ride at some of the major intersections.
• What was odder was the driver not proceeding through when it was green - happened twice - it seemed to be line management.
• The 10 km/h turn into Humber College station was BRUTAL
• Line 6 shuttle buses seemed to be operating at the same time (??) and when one of them passed us in our lrt swan boat, boy did I feel like a chump
• Riding it, it was apparent that this line is not rapid transit. It is a local line to serve local riders. That is how it has been designed. Anyone using it to quickly get to Humber College is making a category error.
• A CTV news reporter asked me for my opinion at Humber College station. I decided not to give my opinion because I didn’t want my grumpiness posted on local news media.

 

[Bordercollie]

I suspect yesterday's reaction to the speed, combined with the Crosstown's expected slow speed in the at-grade sections next year, will create enough pressure for the TTC to make improvements, including transit signal priority.

Just increase the speed limit to 50kmph on straight sections. If a streetcar downtown can do that on a street an LRT should also.

 

[Obsidian]

I suspect yesterday's reaction to the speed, combined with the Crosstown's expected slow speed in the at-grade sections next year, will create enough pressure for the TTC to make improvements, including transit signal priority.

The TTC is not the one blocking TSP, the city is.

 

[Bordercollie]

The TTC is not the one blocking TSP, the city is.

Technically they are the same entity

 

[T3G]

The TTC is not the one blocking TSP, the city is.

TSP may be important, but it's only one piece of the puzzle. There is no reason why, even sans TSP, the line operates like a 90 year old average citizen of the GTA out for a Sunday drive for a drive. And for that, no one can be blamed but the TTC. The policy should be full power and full braking, whenever braking may be required. The 10 km/h in the trench by Humber College is inexcusable, there's no traffic lights there, no danger of anyone or anything getting in their way.

 

[6ixGod]

Given the huge uproar and the fact CBC even ran this article this morning, it appears like this is a great opportunity to really push for TSP. Keep the heat on them until this happens!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/finch-west-lrt-first-monday-9.7006698

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

Theres a third fix: running the trains as fast as Metrolinx did when they tested the line. As soon as the TTC got the keys the trains have been running significantly slower.

When Metrolinx was doing the testing it was Alstom employees operating the trains and even they didn't start at 60km/h. The reality is, the TTC operators still need to familiarize themselves with these new trains before they can feel comfortable operating them at 60 km/h without incident. And that will happen. ION in KW didn't go full speed at launch either (and that was even before they enabled ATP there), that speed ramped up over time like it will for Line 6. The service today should be considered anomalous. It's Launch day with extreme levels of passenger volume because it's the first new line to open in 23 years and they made it free on the first day attracting even more people. Everyone needs to settle down.

Did some more fact checking.....

The Edmonton Valley Line operates very much like Finch. It uses the exact same low-floor Bombardier Flexity trains, has 13 km of track with 12 stations, runs mostly at grade but does the route in exactly 20 minutes and yet Edmontonians complain because it's too slow. Not only does this useless line have too many stops but there is NO excuse for these trains to be stopping at any lights. They only run every 6 minutes in rush hour and with today's technology, they should be able to run stop-free the entire length.

This is a scandalous waste of money and an affront to the long-suffering transit users in North-West Toronto.

1. This line DOES NOT use Bombardier Flexity trains.
2. From Mill Woods to 102 St is ~32 minutes. and most of that is achieved through active signal priority and longer runs at sustained speed. It's not a good comparison as it's doesn't have nearly as much density, nor have nearly as many feeder routes as this one.
3. Even with Active Signal Priority it still has to slow down or stop to wait for the intersections to clear before moving through.

I've said it before, if the TTC isnt interested in operating the line (irrespective of lack of TSP) to it's full operational capabilities, than outsource the operations to someone who will. This clown show of neutered operations has gone on for too long with the TTC, and their operational ineptitude is horridly embarrassing.

Some internal operational competition (through another operator) would show people in this city, in a more glaring way, how pathetically bad the TTC is at operating LRVs. I've been all more than supporting of the TTC operating the line in the past, especially when Metrolinx orginally planned for the operations to be outsourced to another operator until the TTC and city complained about it. But unfortunately, the TTC has shown that they arent really serious about improving streetcar operations, and Finch West is looking to be much of the same.

It's the first day of operations so i'll spare them my scathing lambasting for now but if this continues throughout December, then I think we've seen enough evidence of what the operations of this line will be like.

The TTC is absolutely NOT applying their streetcar operational practices to this line. They have no need to and they have no desire to. They are simply letting the TTC operators (new and existing) get used to driving these trains since they are entirely new and different from anything the TTC has had to operate before. As I've said repeatedly in here, these aren't the speeds the TTC are going to be operating the line at long-term. They are part of the soft-opening period. Run-times are going to decrease over time and speeds will increase. Y'all seriously need to calm down about this.