Finch West Line 6 LRT

[KhalilHeron]

Technically they are the same entity

Not functionally at all. Council needs to decide to fully enable TSP. Just because the TTC is a city agency doesnt mean they have any sway on council. What the theoretically TTC can fix and should focus on right now lowering is dwell times at stations and getting to higher speeds between stations. We'll see in the next few weeks.

 

[hw621]

When Metrolinx was doing the testing it was Alstom employees operating the trains and even they didn't start at 60km/h. The reality is, the TTC operators still need to familiarize themselves with these new trains before they can feel comfortable operating them at 60 km/h without incident. And that will happen. ION in KW didn't go full speed at launch either (and that was even before they enabled ATP there), that speed ramped up over time like it will for Line 6. The service today should be considered anomalous. It's Launch day with extreme levels of passenger volume because it's the first new line to open in 23 years and they made it free on the first day attracting even more people. Everyone needs to settle down.



1. This line DOES NOT use Bombardier Flexity trains.
2. From Mill Woods to 102 St is ~32 minutes. and most of that is achieved through active signal priority and longer runs at sustained speed. It's not a good comparison as it's doesn't have nearly as much density, nor have nearly as many feeder routes as this one.
3. Even with Active Signal Priority it still has to slow down or stop to wait for the intersections to clear before moving through.



The TTC is absolutely NOT applying their streetcar operational practices to this line. They have no need to and they have no desire to. They are simply letting the TTC operators (new and existing) get used to driving these trains since they are entirely new and different from anything the TTC has had to operate before. As I've said repeatedly in here, these aren't the speeds the TTC are going to be operating the line at long-term. They are part of the soft-opening period. Run-times are going to decrease over time and speeds will increase. Y'all seriously need to calm down about this.

almost feels like the TTC should come out and say what their plan is...

 

[Bordercollie]

TSP may be important, but it's only one piece of the puzzle. There is no reason why, even sans TSP, the line operates like a 90 year old average citizen of the GTA out for a Sunday drive for a drive. And for that, no one can be blamed but the TTC. The policy should be full power and full braking, whenever braking may be required. The 10 km/h in the trench by Humber College is inexcusable, there's no traffic lights there, no danger of anyone or anything getting in their way.

So why the 10KMPH speed restriction?

 

[A 6264]

I've got an idea. As a one-day experiment, the TTC and city should set up signals to give full priority to LRT trains. Tell the Operators to run trains as fast as they feel comfortable, to be confident they can stop at the next intersection, going up to the train's physical maximum speed where practical. (They have their own right of way, so who cares about speed limits on the road for cars.) Then go back to normal the next day. I'll bet that once drivers are allowed to do this for one day, they won't want to go back, and neither will commuters, if they get from end to end in, say, 20 minutes.

 

[Bojaxs]

Is there any indication from Finch opening day that Crosstown will be slower than expected in the underground sections?

There's no doubt that the underground trains will be slowed down by at-grade trains. Otherwise we'll see bunching up of eastbound trains around the tunnel portal.

 

[hw621]

I've got an idea. As a one-day experiment, the TTC and city should set up signals to give full priority to LRT trains. Tell the Operators to run trains as fast as they feel comfortable, to be confident they can stop at the next intersection, going up to the train's physical maximum speed where practical. (They have their own right of way, so who cares about speed limits on the road for cars.) Then go back to normal the next day. I'll bet that once drivers are allowed to do this for one day, they won't want to go back, and neither will commuters, if they get from end to end in, say, 20 minutes.

Shouldn't this be the RSD?

 

[Rainforest]

There's no doubt that the underground trains will be slowed down by at-grade trains. Otherwise we'll see bunching up of eastbound trains around the tunnel portal.

That's not how it works. Trains will run faster in the underground section, and maintain longer distances between trains. Then, they will run slower in the surface section, with shorter distances between trains.

Same throughput at every point. Plain physics.

 

[Reecemartin]

Headline says it all

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/finch-west-lrt-first-monday-9.7006698

 

[T3G]

That's not how it works. Trains will run faster in the underground section, and maintain longer distances between trains. Then, they will run slower in the surface section, with shorter distances between trains.

Same throughput at every point. Plain physics.

Well, it might happen if the schedule underestimates the travel time, like it did on Finch.

Otherwise, you're correct. If every vehicle is supposed to have the exact same travel time, it doesn't track logically that they'd be bunching up. I swear I've rebutted this nonsense claim on here at least 4 times over the last few years. Why the hell does it keep coming up?

 

[Bojaxs]

That's not how it works. Trains will run faster in the underground section, and maintain longer distances between trains. Then, they will run slower in the surface section, with shorter distances between trains.

Same throughput at every point. Plain physics.

So extended delays at underground stations to maintain spacing.

 

[A 6264]

There's no doubt that the underground trains will be slowed down by at-grade trains. Otherwise we'll see bunching up of eastbound trains around the tunnel portal.

You've seen those toy marble and track sets, where the track is like a roller coaster. Marbles run fast on some sections, and slow on others, where a motorized section brings the marbles back to the top. Do the marbles "bunch up" on the slow sections? Yes they do, but that doesn't change the rate of speed on the fast sections, nor does it change the overall rate of travel. If the track is set up to have 1 marble pass a certain point every 15 seconds, that's the time between marbles everywhere on the track, in fast and slow sections. I'm not saying you're wrong, because I don't know what you mean, but some people think that having slow sections on a track affects the fast sections, or causes a bottleneck that's something more than just the slow section.

 

[ARG1]

From JRUrbaneNetwork:
View attachment 701401

I'll be nice and say that the section between Mt Olive and Rowntree Mills isn't that bad. At least the trains can reach 60km/h on this section.

 

[Adjei]

Headline says it all

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/finch-west-lrt-first-monday-9.7006698

We need more of this bad press.

 

[Rainforest]

So extended delays at underground stations to maintain spacing.

No, they do not need to stop and wait to adjust the spacing.

Let's say they run at 30 kph in the tunnel section, and the service interval is 5 min. That means, the distance between the trains in the tunnel is 30 x 5 / 60 = 2.5 km.

Then, one of them exits the tunnel, and runs on surface at 20 kph. At that point, the next train is 2.5 km behind.

In the next 5 min, the first train covers 20 x 5 / 60 = 1.67 km. The next train (still undrground) covers 30 x 5 / 60 = 2.5 km, and reaches the tunnel exit. Thus, the distance between the trains naturally shrunk from 2.5 km to 1.67 km. Neither of the trains had to stop and wait just to make the right distance.

And after that, both trains run on surface at 20 kph, and the distance between them (1.67 km) does not change.

 

[jmi22]

I was hearing grumbles and surprise of how slow it is. Parents with their kids kept asking how many stops left as if the ride was unbearable..,

Ditto, managed to catch a "mommy why are we going so slow" sound bite while recording the painfully slow stretch east of Islington.