Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[OneCity]

The whole reason I hold this line of thinking is that I'm coming to believe more and more that both Trudeau and Wynne will be out in which case all these decade long schedules are worth 0.

I don't. People want to see our Government investing in transit now more than ever. The only way the Provincial Conservatives last any more than a standard disciplinary term is with a solid transit investment. And you are seeing signs in the bi elections. The Feds are also showing signs of coming to the table but there is no indication from Federal Conservatives either way right now as its too early.

Im more optimistic than ever. But Toronto needs to speak with one voice. Continuing the internal bickering over the scraps on the table just helps the upper levels off the hook to keep kicking the can while we yell and scream over the lesser details of the big picture.

 

[44 North]

I'm still scratching my head around the need for the Hakimi Lebovic

I'm still scratching my head at the name Hakimi Lebovic. These are two separate streets, which afaik are named after two separate people. But they combined it into one, as if there was an individual with that name. No hyphen, no forward slash, no inclusion of the "Ave" part of those separate streets. They simply created a new name where there isn't one. I don't see the logic and it seems kinda weird. But I guess this is just a surface stop so it's not a big deal.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I'm still scratching my head at the name Hakimi Lebovic. These are two separate streets, which afaik are named after two separate people. But they combined it into one, as if there was an individual with that name. No hyphen, no forward slash, no inclusion of the "Ave" part of those separate streets. They simply created a new name where there isn't one. I don't see the logic and it seems kinda weird. But I guess this is just a surface stop so it's not a big deal.

it could also be a different name for each side of the street for example the westbound stop will be Hakiem and the eastbound stop will be Lebovic

 

[Avenue]

I'm still scratching my head around the need for the Hakimi Lebovic and Sunnybrook Park/Leslie stops.

Ionview as well. Given that how the "priority signaling" and left turns at intersections are going to be worked out is a mystery, having so many stops in such short distances is quite risky for timing and reliability.

The Hakimi/Lebovic - Eglinton intersection is 490m away from the Pharmacy - Eglintion station and only 300m from the Warden - Eglinton. That's not rapid transit station spacing.

 

[salsa]

it could also be a different name for each side of the street for example the westbound stop will be Hakiem and the eastbound stop will be Lebovic

That's correct but as 44 was saying, they didn't put a hyphen or anything to separate the two names.

 

[Steve X]

Leslie isn't so bad. It's a kilometre away from the nearest stops and there's a lot of office buildings leading up Leslie St from Eglinton. It's also a potential interchange site with GO Transit if they ever decide to put commuter trains on the Midtown corridor.

It's Ferrand (Aga Khan), Hakimi Lebovic and Ionview that are the useless stops with no surface connections and within a few hundred metres of other stops.

Here we go again. People's destination isn't just their next bus connection. Aga Khan is beside a nighghbourhood. Hakimi Lebovic is surrounded by shops and is a pretty popular location. Ionview is needed because there is no stop at Kennedy itself. Kennedy station is a few hundred more meters to the east. TTC already determine they'll need to run parallel bus service if stops are 1km apart. O'Connor and Pharmacy are however too close together and should be combined. Having stops every 400-500m will also bring in more development and is built into the plan back in Transit City. They consider development potential as an important factor to having stop there and still doing the same with the Eglinton west extension. In other words, it's not useless cause it doesn't connect to a bus. In that case Chester Station and North York Centre would be consider useless with no bus connection (the 97C parallel service with 30 min frequency doesn't really count).

I'm still scratching my head at the name Hakimi Lebovic. These are two separate streets, which afaik are named after two separate people. But they combined it into one, as if there was an individual with that name. No hyphen, no forward slash, no inclusion of the "Ave" part of those separate streets. They simply created a new name where there isn't one. I don't see the logic and it seems kinda weird. But I guess this is just a surface stop so it's not a big deal.

Metrolinx gave no thoughts to this name after discussing other important names like Golden Miles during that meeting. It was decided on a short notice. Stupid? YES!

Ionview as well. Given that how the "priority signaling" and left turns at intersections are going to be worked out is a mystery, having so many stops in such short distances is quite risky for timing and reliability.

The Hakimi/Lebovic - Eglinton intersection is 490m away from the Pharmacy - Eglintion station and only 300m from the Warden - Eglinton. That's not rapid transit station spacing.

The downtown U, Paris, London, Berlin and NYC all have stops that are less than 400m. First, we'll start by removing Bay, Museum, St Patrick, St Andrew, King, Dundas an Wellesley cause they are too close to other stations. While at it, they should remove Spadina Station too cause it's just 300m from St George.

True transit priority takes place before the left turn phase. Red light timing would be shorten. Advanced green and green time might be shorten to compensate for the priority signal. Trains should cross first. Of course it would be better if they can get all the trains to cross during Green oppose to priority signals.

 

[Hopkins123]

Here we go again. People's destination isn't just their next bus connection. Aga Khan is beside a nighghbourhood. Hakimi Lebovic is surrounded by shops and is a pretty popular location. Ionview is needed because there is no stop at Kennedy itself. Kennedy station is a few hundred more meters to the east. TTC already determine they'll need to run parallel bus service if stops are 1km apart. O'Connor and Pharmacy are however too close together and should be combined. Having stops every 400-500m will also bring in more development and is built into the plan back in Transit City. They consider development potential as an important factor to having stop there and still doing the same with the Eglinton west extension. In other words, it's not useless cause it doesn't connect to a bus. In that case Chester Station and North York Centre would be consider useless with no bus connection (the 97C parallel service with 30 min frequency doesn't really count).

It should be pointed out though that where the location for the proposed Ferrard/Aga Khan will be there is no current stop. They're seemingly inventing a brand new stop for an area fringing highway on and off ramps. The Ferrand stop can be best likened to the Sussex Avenue stop on the 510 or Tweedsmuir on the 512, a minor surface stop with very little foot traffic just beyond the portal to a major underground station. Even in 100 years time, I still don't envision the Ferrand stop being all that busy at all.

Hakimi Lebovic is another station that could easily go. The Pharmacy and Golden Mile stops already could cover this area well if the platforms are strategically placed to maximize usability (the Pharmacy platforms placed on the far side of the Pharmacy/Eglinton intersection and the Golden Mile platforms placed on the near side of Warden/Eglinton intersection). Anyone destined for Lebovic would be within a 5 minute's walking distance of either station's platform areas.

Ionview is the most viable of the three non-transferring stops for the reasons you've stated.

The downtown U, Paris, London, Berlin and NYC all have stops that are less than 400m. First, we'll start by removing Bay, Museum, St Patrick, St Andrew, King, Dundas an Wellesley cause they are too close to other stations. While at it, they should remove Spadina Station too cause it's just 300m from St George.

How ironic that the Crosstown gets super-close spacing in areas that don't really warrant it yet the proposed DRL has a whopping 1200 metre gap in-between Sherbourne-Queen and City Hall stations - one of the most densely populated areas of the country!

 

[Steve X]

It should be pointed out though that where the location for the proposed Ferrard/Aga Khan will be there is no current stop. They're seemingly inventing a brand new stop for an area fringing highway on and off ramps. The Ferrand stop can be best likened to the Sussex Avenue stop on the 510 or Tweedsmuir on the 512, a minor surface stop with very little foot traffic just beyond the portal to a major underground station. Even in 100 years time, I still don't envision the Ferrand stop being all that busy at all.

Hakimi Lebovic is another station that could easily go. The Pharmacy and Golden Mile stops already could cover this area well if the platforms are strategically placed to maximize usability (the Pharmacy platforms placed on the far side of the Pharmacy/Eglinton intersection and the Golden Mile platforms placed on the near side of Warden/Eglinton intersection). Anyone destined for Lebovic would be within a 5 minute's walking distance of either station's platform areas.

Ionview is the most viable of the three non-transferring stops for the reasons you've stated.



How ironic that the Crosstown gets super-close spacing in areas that don't really warrant it yet the proposed DRL has a whopping 1200 metre gap in-between Sherbourne-Queen and City Hall stations - one of the most densely populated areas of the country!

Wait, what's this I see in the original EA before Metrolinx intervene with everything? http://thecrosstown.ca/sites/defaul...t-description-plates-plates-46-89.pdf#page=40
Metrolinx wanted to remove the stop and the residents fought for their stop back. It's not going to be a major stop but it is 500m away from Don Mills not 150m (Tweedsmuir) or 300m (Sussex). A stop like these does save people a trip down a long flight of stairs. I agree this would be one of the least used the stop in the east end.

Hakimi Lebovic has a huge potential for future development. It will get its use. Stations are finalized now... moving on.

I'm not sure if the city is being cheap by building less stations. I'm not sure if a faster line would draw more people away from using the Yonge line.

 

[Steve X]

Interestingly Crosstown West is shown on the Metrolinx project map (on the updated Hamilton LRT presentation) as under development. Crosstown East is not shown on that map.

 

[crs1026]

Interestingly Crosstown West is shown on the Metrolinx project map (on the updated Hamilton LRT presentation) as under development. Crosstown East is not shown on that map.

It's hard to tell the players without a program, isn't it?
Crosstown West originated within SmartTrack, which has gone through a City-Provincial negotiation and is being executed by the Province at the City's request.
Crosstown East originated from within the City's various planning scenarios for the SRT replacement. The Province has no presence or role in that initiative, although it has committed funding.

- Paul

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

It's hard to tell the players without a program, isn't it?
Crosstown West originated within SmartTrack, which has gone through a City-Provincial negotiation and is being executed by the Province at the City's request.
Crosstown East originated from within the City's various planning scenarios for the SRT replacement. The Province has no presence or role in that initiative, although it has committed funding.

- Paul

To be more accurate, both Crosstown West and East originated out of Transit City, and got rolled into the The Big Move; they were then known as Eglinton Crosstown Phase 2 and the Scarborough Malvern LRT, respectively. Anything done since by anybody has been a thrashing, truncating, recycling and/or rebranding of those projects.

 

[crs1026]

To be more accurate, both Crosstown West and East originated out of Transit City, and got rolled into the The Big Move; they were then known as Eglinton Crosstown Phase 2 and the Scarborough Malvern LRT, respectively. Anything done since by anybody has been a thrashing, truncating, recycling and/or rebranding of those projects.

Yeah, I should probably not have used the word 'originated'. It's more a question of when they "came back to life" most recently. ML's memory bank was likely erased when McGuinty cut the Crosstown project back. The current projects are sort of like Terminator III.

I even wonder if the Big Move is still considered a serious plan anymore.

- Paul

 

[Avenue]

The downtown U, Paris, London, Berlin and NYC all have stops that are less than 400m. First, we'll start by removing Bay, Museum, St Patrick, St Andrew, King, Dundas an Wellesley cause they are too close to other stations. While at it, they should remove Spadina Station too cause it's just 300m from St George.

True transit priority takes place before the left turn phase. Red light timing would be shorten. Advanced green and green time might be shorten to compensate for the priority signal. Trains should cross first. Of course it would be better if they can get all the trains to cross during Green oppose to priority signals.

Fine but I don't think any of those examples really refute what's being said here - that 300m between two stations is too close and that distance is easily walkable. All the Hakimi Lebovic station does is slow down the entire cycle and increase travel times without adding much of a ridership.

That's the issue with surface lines in Toronto - building stops at grade is cheap so they are really prone to giving into the local pressure to add more and more stops. I think Finch West has the same issue in this regard.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

I even wonder if the Big Move is still considered a serious plan anymore.

I'll always regard it as a religious-type of document, a testament I will continue to preach. But I doubt other consider it serious anymore, after Wynne refused to implement the Investment Strategy that was supposed to empower it.

Even for just Toronto. All that it could have built, and all that that could be built upon.

 

[smallspy]

Fine but I don't think any of those examples really refute what's being said here - that 300m between two stations is too close and that distance is easily walkable. All the Hakimi Lebovic station does is slow down the entire cycle and increase travel times without adding much of a ridership.

That's the issue with surface lines in Toronto - building stops at grade is cheap so they are really prone to giving into the local pressure to add more and more stops. I think Finch West has the same issue in this regard.

It's 300m....if you are on Eglinton. And if you're not, then you have that much further to walk to get to a stop.

Also, the stops will be upon request. If there is no one there or no one needs to step off of the vehicle, it just keeps going through at speed.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.