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York Region Transit: Viva service thread

BMO said:
I suspect the service is really going through some growing pains until VIVA is completed. The construction is really hurting On-time performance on a lot of routes and congestion is just getting worse day-by-day.
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This has nothing to do with "growing pains" or construction. The service outside of VIVA (and to a good extent, VIVA as well) is continually being cut and cut and cut in an effort to achieve some fictional 50/50 cost recovery number.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
This has nothing to do with "growing pains" or construction. The service outside of VIVA (and to a good extent, VIVA as well) is continually being cut and cut and cut in an effort to achieve some fictional 50/50 cost recovery number.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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Well considering operations on lines going through the construction or passing through it require more money to adhere to their scheduled times (i.e. add another bus or two on a route to ensure a consistent headway and frequency) then yea I can see how growing pains can contribute to a reduction in service outside of viva, save for a few key routes. This compounded with the 50/50 cost-ratio goal. It's a vicious cycle where limited resources are diverted from less used lines to keep maintaining service on busier routes. It's hard to justify NOT cutting service on the majority of routes in the region. At the same time, this only makes the service less appealing, so they're either losing money or losing customers in the current scenario. As VIVA Rpidways come online, they'll be able to reduce their operating costs for the lines (need fewer buses to transport the same amount of people due to faster average travel times) and then we may see those bus drivers and vehicles shifted to other routes outside of viva.
 
smallspy said:
It's not just the labour disruptions.

YRT's service is shite. That alone has turned off a lot of people. If you can't rely on a bus being at your stop when its supposed to be there, you're not going to be using that option anymore.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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True, but one thing YRT has done is used technology to help the passenger overcome these obstacles. They have a mobile page where you can punch in the stop number to see when the next bus is coming, and even when that fails (usually if the bus is running really late) you can open up a real time map off of their desktop site which shows the exact location of the bus. From a PC it will also tell you real time arrival times with Google Maps, though unfortunately this feature has been removed from the mobile version for some reason. The setup isn't quite as smooth as the Transit Now Toronto app, but once you figure out how to use it, it does the job.
 
BMO said:
Well considering operations on lines going through the construction or passing through it require more money to adhere to their scheduled times (i.e. add another bus or two on a route to ensure a consistent headway and frequency) then yea I can see how growing pains can contribute to a reduction in service outside of viva, save for a few key routes. This compounded with the 50/50 cost-ratio goal. It's a vicious cycle where limited resources are diverted from less used lines to keep maintaining service on busier routes. It's hard to justify NOT cutting service on the majority of routes in the region. At the same time, this only makes the service less appealing, so they're either losing money or losing customers in the current scenario. As VIVA Rpidways come online, they'll be able to reduce their operating costs for the lines (need fewer buses to transport the same amount of people due to faster average travel times) and then we may see those bus drivers and vehicles shifted to other routes outside of viva.
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I will allow that you are right - except that this has been going on for 4 or 5 years now, which is in some cases quite a bit longer than a lot of the construction has been going on for.

innsertnamehere said:
you mean that they will just cut those extra buses to reach their 50/50 ratio?
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Basically. Take for instance the Jane corridor - the 35D had (and may still have) higher ridership than the 20 during the rush hours. Yes, they serve largely the same area, but keep in mind that riders are coming from different origins/headed to different destinations as well. The service on the 35D has been cut and cut and cut, which is in theory alright if they are trying to migrate the ridership to the 20 - but the 20 hasn't been improved much at all to make up for it.

And that's just one example that comes to mind. There are a lot of other routes that already have good ridership and could arguably see better service (Warden, Bathurst) if it wasn't for the need to keep finding cost savings.

Electrify said:
True, but one thing YRT has done is used technology to help the passenger overcome these obstacles. They have a mobile page where you can punch in the stop number to see when the next bus is coming, and even when that fails (usually if the bus is running really late) you can open up a real time map off of their desktop site which shows the exact location of the bus. From a PC it will also tell you real time arrival times with Google Maps, though unfortunately this feature has been removed from the mobile version for some reason. The setup isn't quite as smooth as the Transit Now Toronto app, but once you figure out how to use it, it does the job.
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That might be the case if it wasn't for the fact that YRT's systems are so abysmally unreliable that they are for all purposes at the point of being useless.

I can only recall one instance of the TTC's GPS system going completely offline - and I can think of three in just the past 18 months on YRT. And nevermind stops seem to go for months without repairs, or buses that disappear from the online or phone-based tracking system right when you need them. Google's predictions are more reliable that YRT's, but they still rely on the same unreliable hardware on board the vehicles.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Trust me, I didn't post that pic of that poster a few pages back to mock the person who wrote it. YRT needs some serious TLC from people who want to see transit succeed, not those who see it as simply a political football (if it were at least viewed as a social service, the fares would be somewhat affordable).
 
BMO said:
Well considering operations on lines going through the construction or passing through it require more money to adhere to their scheduled times (i.e. add another bus or two on a route to ensure a consistent headway and frequency) then yea I can see how growing pains can contribute to a reduction in service outside of viva, save for a few key routes. This compounded with the 50/50 cost-ratio goal. It's a vicious cycle where limited resources are diverted from less used lines to keep maintaining service on busier routes. It's hard to justify NOT cutting service on the majority of routes in the region. At the same time, this only makes the service less appealing, so they're either losing money or losing customers in the current scenario.
Click to expand...

Losing customers also means losing money. Cutting service to increase cost recovery doesn't really work. Once you start losing ridership, you start losing fare revenue and you have to cut service even more. I think that's what we're seeing with YRT, after years and years of service cuts. I seriously doubt they're ever going to reach 50% cost recovery. They already have the highest fares by far in the GTA, and soon they'll have the worst service too. You'd think they would've figured out by now that strategy isn't working.
 
raptor said:
Presentations for Spadina Subway Transit Strategy:
Spadina Subway PIC Overview
Spadina Subway PIC Stations and Routes
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BIG changes. Looks like YRT is assuming pretty much all of the TTC routes that go north of Steeles in the area. I could see this working well. Also, many of the routes seem to be more streamlines with less spurs and deviations. Frequencies seem to be a bit better on the 20 which I can see some decent ridership generated ahead of VIVA Silver introduction in 2017. Also, a lot of routes have been shortened, this will probably improve on-time performance and reliability. Splitting VIVA Orange is a great idea IMO providing a quick link between Finch and the Thornhill City Centre.
 
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^ +1.

the frequencies seem like significant improvements over what is currently there. I wonder if VIVA is going to be getting some improvements on off peak frequencies? Dropping it to even 10 minutes would be a great thing. Ideally I would like to see the VIVA lines eventually run at 2-3 minutes peak and 5-7 minutes off peak.
 
ShonTron said:
I don't think Brampton provided input (and I hope Brampton didn't yet). I don't think splitting the 501 and 501A to separate subway termini is all that smart.
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I hope so too! I don't think Brampton would be stupid enough to do an unnecessary loop for the 501A to get to Pioneer Village so I think its safe to say they weren't consulted. Though, if TTC doesn't find a way to give York U students a way to ride without a double fare, its likely that Brampton will be pressured to go to Pioneer Village.

On another note, I think it is unwise of them to make the new Dufferin route go to Pioneer Village. Its likely that those passengers are trying to connect to the subway and the new routing will significantly increase their commute time.

Viva orange's branch to Finch seems to have a few twists at Promenade -- I think it would be better to either stay on Centre to increase speed (though I have heard that Clark is more dense).

Finally with viva orange to RHC already existing, it seems redundant to have the 101 use that routing. It should go directly down Highway 7 (maybe they are afraid that such a routing will be too popular and outshine viva?)
 
ShonTron said:
I don't think Brampton provided input (and I hope Brampton didn't yet). I don't think splitting the 501 and 501A to separate subway termini is all that smart.
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I guess I kinda assumed that all BT buses would go to the farthest north station but then thought about the 407 routed 501s and changed my assumption to all BT buses going to the 407 station. Buses connecting to subways (IMO) should make the first/shortest connection to speed up commute times and make bus schedules more predictable/reliable.
 
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