Why is religion above criticism?

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Now imagine if I had said the exact opposite of what you said, but in the same way....

"Atheists are STUPID plain in simple!"

"Not finding God is just a product of being lazy or brainwashing from the left."

Had I said those things, people would've fell off of their rocker!

to be fair, you'd have to say "atheism is stupid plain and simple" in order to compare to his post. from what he wrote, he wasn't talking about people.

p.s, i wouldn't have fell off my rocker. mine has an anti-tip mechanism.


double p.s, how are you sure he's an atheist? he could be a deist.

 

[vicente]

The Tanakh, New Testament, and the Qu'ran would be banned as hate speech under our laws if religion was treated like everything else.

 

[Hipster Duck]

guys, i've had a revelation and we need to stop criticizing religion. i have learned that i have been misinterpreting theology. there is absolutely nothing wrong with any religion, religious movement or their theologies. there is something wrong with me. i have been an intolerant closed minded bigot. i hope you can all forgive me, especially keithz.

What would keithz have to do with a thread that he hasn't even posted in?

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

What would keithz have to do with a thread that he hasn't even posted in?

hipster, there's a whole other world outside this thread. one where i've been a bigot and intolerant person who acts like a 5 year old. i need to smarten up and interpret things correctly.

 

[Hydrogen]

Yeah, it'd be nice if this thread does not slip to the level of personal attacks or innuendo.

 

[Brian69]

The Tanakh, New Testament, and the Qu'ran would be banned as hate speech under our laws if religion was treated like everything else.

There's definitely something to that--a double standard at work. Quoting from the Old Testament might land someone in the hoosegow for years.

 

[TOinTO]

People are most sensitive to criticism of beliefs that they hold without a rational basis. For most religious people, their religion is a collection of such beliefs. On the other hand, there are religious intellectuals who can argue rationally in favour of their religion and they are quite happy to do so.

I think we also avoid confronting people about beliefs that we perceive to be irrational. Why bother? There isn't likely to be any common ground.

But that's still doesn't explain it. Religion, in itself and apart from the tenets of any particular religion, gets a mild blanket endorsement from society. Somehow, just having unquestioning 'faith' in something unknowable is considered a virtue. People who don't have such faith are weak and mistrusted. Maybe because they aren't playing along.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

What I do have an issue with is when believers exerts themselves as the holder of sole moral truth and expects public policies to conform to their expectations. At the end of the day, this has relatively little to do with the absence or presence of God.

Now you can argue that a secular state (and secular public policies) is in effect priviledging one view over others - yes - it is - but it is also the path that is most accomodating to differences across a broad continuum of beliefs.

AoD

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Now you can argue that a secular state (and secular public policies) is in effect priviledging one view over others - yes - it is - but it is also the path that is most accomodating to differences across a broad continuum of beliefs.

AoD

but that's like saying that paper manufacturers are promoting atheism because they sell blank paper that doesn't have any religious references printed on it.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

But see, secularism doesn't promote atheism - it just means that the state does not subscribe to and undertake public policy through any explicitly religous lens. Mind you, certain values stemming from religious beliefs does permeate the public arena and it's hard to draw a clear line (e.g. euthanasia, abortion, etc)

AoD

 

[SiWri]

There can never be a true debate between those who are religious and those who aren't because of "faith". I can only speak for myself (I am atheist) but I base my opinion on the evidence as I see it. I think evolution makes sense, I follow the logic and to me, that is in direct contrast with a higher power creating everything (although some would argue the two ideas aren't polar opposites). If the evidence changes to a point where a brand new theory comes out, I will take that on board. A religious person, no matter what the evidence is, will always come back to faith. Faith doesn't need proof or reason, and as such a straight debate can never be had. It's personal choice. I've no problem with Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc practising their faith as long as it doesn't infringe on my life in any way. As soon as a religious group demands tax breaks, their own laws and anything else that sets them apart from everyone else, that is where I become annoyed. Every group has their lunatic fringes and really the "God Hates Fags", "Death to Infidels" and other nutter groups can't be thrown in with the majority of religious people and shouldn't be used as an argument against religion per se.

Having said that, the world would be a better place without religion.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

But see, secularism doesn't promote atheism - it just means that the state does not subscribe to and undertake public policy through any explicitly religous lens. Mind you, certain values stemming from religious beliefs does permeate the public arena and it's hard to draw a clear line (e.g. euthanasia, abortion, etc)

AoD

i know, but there will be those that will accuse that since we don't write "to the glory of god" or "to the supremacy of god" on public monuments or because we stop saying prayers in government institutions and secularize publicly funded school systems, that the government is endorsing atheism since it is not endorsing god. for some people, secularism is not neutral. for some people, teaching science is part of the pro atheist anti god conspiracy.

 

[Brian69]

i know, but there will be those that will accuse that since we don't write "to the glory of god" or "to the supremacy of god" on public monuments or because we stop saying prayers in government institutions and secularize publicly funded school systems, that the government is endorsing atheism since it is not endorsing god. for some people, secularism is not neutral. for some people, teaching science is part of the pro atheist anti god conspiracy.

Yes, and many of those are the people who are of the opinion religion is not a personal matter between the believer and god but something that must be communicated or even enforced upon the world at large, i.e., within education, government, entertainment, media etc. For them, preparing for the next world isn't enough but requires remaking this world into a pre-heavenly waiting room in which we stew in fear before we are inevitably called into to see Dr. God. (and for them he's a proctologist with a mean streak).

But I suppose some of the moderates also fear the lessening of god's influence in public affairs. Now, I understand the fear of some that secularism might seek to stamp out religion altogether by pushing it out of the halls of secular power or view, but I just don't see that happening. Religion (and belief) aren't going anywhere no matter how much or little they are in the public eye.

Churches, temples, mosques, synagogues and the like all have their own influence among their followers and nobody is walking into them to tell them what to do or what to believe. And again, religion is a personal matter so it need not be in anyone's face, least of all when our multicultural nation now has so many competing faiths. I'm amazed when people who agree that religion is a personal and private thing are upset when it is removed from places in which it clearly doesn't belong.

 

[Hipster Duck]

It amazes me that a thread where everyone is in agreement with one another can sustain itself for 3 pages.

I guess there's something to be said for mutual reinforcement or, as the saying goes, "preaching to the converted".

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

I'm amazed when people who agree that religion is a personal and private thing are upset when it is removed from places in which it clearly doesn't belong.

why are you amazed? it's like those people who want religious freedom, not for anyone else's religion, just their own.