Why are they tearing up every major street in Toronto?

[hawc]

Over the last 5 years it feels like they've torn up almost every major street in Toronto to put in new sewer mains. Can anyone shed some more light on this? I searched for a thread on it but couldn't find it. Does anyone have any information on which streets they're working on? Also, why do they pave a street and then just rip it up 6 months later? Honestly, sparing the sarcasm, why?!?

 

[Paleo]

Over the last 5 years it feels like they've torn up almost every major street in Toronto to put in new sewer mains. Can anyone shed some more light on this? I searched for a thread on it but couldn't find it. Does anyone have any information on which streets they're working on? Also, why do they pave a street and then just rip it up 6 months later? Honestly, sparing the sarcasm, why?!?

Presumably for the same reason why they haven't synchronized lights to give you a green wave on Harbord.

 

[CityPainter]

This is a perennial complaint but I agree things do seem particularly bad lately. Front Street east of the St. Lawrence Market is a warzone, dug up and patched so many times you can barely walk across the street without tripping. The trucks bouncing over the ruts at Front and Sherbourne rattle so loud I always look up expecting to see a 10-car pileup. All the stop and crosswalk lines are long worn away, so vehicles have no guidance on where to stop and often block the crosswalks even when there's no traffic.

The major watermain and other construction along there has been going on well over a year now... every time it seems like they are finally done they come back and re-dig a hole. Original finish dates for the work was spring 2011, then fall 2011, then they just took the signs estimating completion away. I understand they are trying to wait until *everything* is complete before resurfacing (to avoid justified angry complaints of new roads being cut up) but the flipside of this approach seems to be that since the construction is never done, they never resurface, and things just keep getting worse and worse.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

Bayview and Millwood in Leaside are, finally, completely rebuilt and resurfaced after three continuous years of digging. The utilities paid for it all, not the city:

http://www.yongestreetmedia.ca/devnews/bayviewsidewalk1116.aspx

These things take time.

 

[TransitPolicyChanger]

Over the last 5 years it feels like they've torn up almost every major street in Toronto to put in new sewer mains. Can anyone shed some more light on this? I searched for a thread on it but couldn't find it. Does anyone have any information on which streets they're working on? Also, why do they pave a street and then just rip it up 6 months later? Honestly, sparing the sarcasm, why?!?

As others have noted, the co-ordination with the City and the Utilities is far from ideal. I've already heard that Dundas, which had the streetcar tracks and streetscape redone this past summer will have to be ripped up in sections for gas main work. Its backwards, but that's how things are run around here.

The major sewer main work is required because a lot of them are approaching 80, 90, 100+ years of service, and again, repaving is co-ordinated by a separate division.

 

[DSC]

This is a perennial complaint but I agree things do seem particularly bad lately. Front Street east of the St. Lawrence Market is a warzone, dug up and patched so many times you can barely walk across the street without tripping. The trucks bouncing over the ruts at Front and Sherbourne rattle so loud I always look up expecting to see a 10-car pileup. All the stop and crosswalk lines are long worn away, so vehicles have no guidance on where to stop and often block the crosswalks even when there's no traffic.

The major watermain and other construction along there has been going on well over a year now... every time it seems like they are finally done they come back and re-dig a hole. Original finish dates for the work was spring 2011, then fall 2011, then they just took the signs estimating completion away. I understand they are trying to wait until *everything* is complete before resurfacing (to avoid justified angry complaints of new roads being cut up) but the flipside of this approach seems to be that since the construction is never done, they never resurface, and things just keep getting worse and worse.

I can update you on Front Street East. The contract for repairing the road EAST of Parliament has just been awarded, I guess not much will now happen until spring 2012.

The watermain work from Jarvis to Sherbourne (the final section being done) will start early in 2012. As soon as that is done Toronto Hydro are coming to bury all the wires from Jarvis to Parliament (or as many as possible) and install new streetlights (Victorians). Then the whole street from Jarvis to Parliament will be resurfaced and new sidewalks will be installed and improved as part of a "promenade plan". Community Council has already approved several 'bump-outs and more are plannned plus a median from Jarvis to George. The basic work is a regular City project, the improvements are being paid for from Section 37 funds and $$ from the BIA.

 

[hawc]

As others have noted, the co-ordination with the City and the Utilities is far from ideal. I've already heard that Dundas, which had the streetcar tracks and streetscape redone this past summer will have to be ripped up in sections for gas main work. Its backwards, but that's how things are run around here.

Why?

 

[nfitz]

This is a perennial complaint but I agree things do seem particularly bad lately. Front Street east of the St. Lawrence Market is a warzone, dug up and patched so many times you can barely walk across the street without tripping. The trucks bouncing over the ruts at Front and Sherbourne rattle so loud I always look up expecting to see a 10-car pileup. All the stop and crosswalk lines are long worn away, so vehicles have no guidance on where to stop and often block the crosswalks even when there's no traffic.

The major watermain and other construction along there has been going on well over a year now... every time it seems like they are finally done they come back and re-dig a hole. Original finish dates for the work was spring 2011, then fall 2011, then they just took the signs estimating completion away. I understand they are trying to wait until *everything* is complete before resurfacing (to avoid justified angry complaints of new roads being cut up) but the flipside of this approach seems to be that since the construction is never done, they never resurface, and things just keep getting worse and worse.

Wow, I would have called Front an example of it being done right.

So far they've replaced both the watermain, and the sanitary sewer (or perhaps installed one for the first time!). To do that, you HAVE to dig up the road 3 times. To put in a new wartermain, first you have to put in the main. Then you get it pressure tested and operating. At that point, the current users are still on the old watermain (or they don't have any water). You then dig up the street a second time, building by building, to connect switch over each user one by one. And you have to dig it up again to put in the sanitary sewer - which of course goes in a different trench than the watermain (so there's no point doing it at the same time). And each time you do something, you have to patch the road, to keep it usable.

I don't know if gas, hydro, cable, phone, etc. is going to be going in as well. But I wouldn't be surprised if there are more digs for those before it all gets repaved one day. Isn't that a good thing though?

Would you prefer they completely repave the road after each little bit? Normally that's what people complain about. Major rebuilds of infrastructure are not simple. Another solution would be simply to just close Front to all traffic for 6 months, and do it quicker and cheaper. Would you prefer that?

 

[nfitz]

Why?

Because it's a lot cheaper to do things piecemeal, than to try and co-ordinate everything being done simultaneously. That's what went wrong on St. Clair and Bloor - they tried one big co-ordinated dig. But then one piece went wrong, and instead of just one contractor sitting there paying out $ and not getting stuff done, ALL of them were doing that ... and things got more expensive.

The ideal situation is over the course of 2-3 years, have everyone come in, one by one, and do their bit, by themselves. And then rebuild the road after. Like they are doing on Front. But then someone probably would complain about that ...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Why the rash of road repairs? There is something called the stimulus, I believe.

And yes, listing/data:

http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/capital_program/index.htm

Stimulus projects:

http://www.toronto.ca/stimulus_fund/pdf/backgrounder_eng.pdf

AoD

 

[CITY_LOVER]

Are these the same reasons why many of our sidewalks are also torn up and then patched up again (although the asphalt patching of the sidewalks seems to be more of a permanent thing - just look at Yonge St. north of College/Carlton)?

With regards to sidewalks, they're happening everywhere, including new areas like Liberty Village, where new and nicely laid out sidewalks (and parts of roads) have been dug up and covered up in new asphalt that is not evenly spread out. It looks really bad.

It's too bad that many of the most important and most visited areas of the city like the greater downtown area suffer more from this phenomenon than virtually any other part of the city. If the repairs and upgrades have to be done, it would be nice to see adequate effort in re-surfacing roads evenly (along with lane markings, pedestrain crossings, etc.) and have the sidewalks put back in the same state they were initially in (proper blocks of concrete or better, depending on the street, etc.)

 

[salmonz]

It seems like they like re-digging up Yonge St near St Clair every week. It drives me nuts when each day it's unpredictable what they're going to do next. It could take 30 minutes on day to get from Davisville to St Clair on Yonge. Yes, the sidewalks have asphalt patchwork which looks like crap. I really hope when they're done with their work they fix the sidewalks and road.

 

[noctis]

I pass by Warden and 401 everyday and currently there is some sort of construction going on right now, but I have no idea what they are doing...could it be road maintenance, repairing a sewage, putting in a new layer of asphalt, etc. Then again, it makes sense to do the repairs and maintenance now because once winter hits, there's no chance to do these tasks until summer 2012...

 

[someMidTowner]

Nothing compares to the yearly construction/deconstruction of avenue road from st clair to 401. 4 year water main construction preceded by yearly repaving and gas line replacement. I dont think there has ever been a full year without lane reductions and heavy machinery since the 90s

 

[liamdevlin02]

I pass by Warden and 401 everyday and currently there is some sort of construction going on right now, but I have no idea what they are doing...could it be road maintenance, repairing a sewage, putting in a new layer of asphalt, etc. Then again, it makes sense to do the repairs and maintenance now because once winter hits, there's no chance to do these tasks until summer 2012...

The signs around there say construction until 2013, I think. It looks like they're repairing the bridge. They've also done some work to the on and off ramps on both the north and south sides.