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Whose vision of transit in Toronto do you support?

Whose vision of transit in Toronto do you support?


  • Total voters
    165
1) I am concerned that you might be the one spreading this stuff around without authorization. Can we be sure it's not you?

2) Post the link. I haven't seen anything on Rocco's website blog or his Facebook wall.

It is not me doing that and besides, I would not be spreading anything around for SOS :D

If you look on Rocco's page under his fan photos, someone posted a map that shows a bunch of subway lines (i.e. Sheppard to STC, BD to Square One, etc.)

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!...77219380&aid=-1&id=708577101&oid=135377219380
 
there is a 'tie' in the poll

People are afraid of what they don’t understand. Yet what they do understand they abuse when there is no other motivating cause for their fears.
 
It is superior. I don't dispute that. Cost is the worry though. And the perception that the plan is too east-centric. Even ditching Ellesmere for this, I still don't see it being as cheap.
It's not about being cheap; it's about delivering real results, real solutions to the average everyday transit user. If Transit City was about really improving the quality of service for the majority I would've supported it; but AFAIK it's primarily a political tool being used to advance the careers of the few while everyone is almost compelled to drive the way the transit service in this city is deteriorating. 15kms of tramways along a few select suburban arteries only helps those whom live close to it, no one's going out of their way to transfer onto a tram to then transfer onto a subway when buses can carry people directly straight to the subway today. Giving up some shoulder lane space or converting rolling pastures beside a highway spanning all of 4 kms isn't a filibuster, its complimentary transit upgrades for a part of the 416 that's overdue to have some. And a proper BRT network would cost only a few hundred million, far less than the pricetag of one Transit City project to implement yet cover far more mileage.

Ever been stuck in gridlock trying to cross the 401 or to get from McCowan/Ellesmere to the SCC Stn during rush hour on the bus? I have, and it's not pretty. Giving buses their own unobstructed lanes will remove thousands of motorists from our streets over time as drivers start to notice: "Gee, look over there, those buses are moving pretty fast while I stuck in this never-ending conga line of smoggy cars and trucks! Guess I'll be late again. Maybe I'll leave the car at home tomorrow and save on gas... and time."
As for splitting Morningside. That's an easy call. The demand is completely different. Malvernites who live along Morningside take the 116 to access Kennedy station. They would gladly take a different route if offered one. The southern half of Morningside consists of West Hill residents and UTSC students. This is why the city is proposing servicing one set with LRT and another set is probably going to get a bus to STC.
Fair enough. When I thought up the idea for a Hwy 401 BRT busway I envisioned splitting up the Markham and Brimley bus routes as well, so Morningside would make sense too. Of particular interest with that idea is the option to siphon off the Littles Rd/Old Finch section of the 131 route to the new 116N bus since I'm guessing there aren't a lot of Rogue Valley residents whom work along Nugget.
Neilson is different. A mere 1.5 km lies south of the 401. The demand is almost entirely from Malvern for that bus route. If you were to split it, you would seriously harm service to those residents who are south of the 401.
Well no actually. The 133 bus would be absorbed by the BRT routes running north and south along Neilson. So service, particularly during peak hour, would be far more frequent (The 133 runs every 13 minutes compared to every 3-5 minutes for the combined headway of BRT routes plus 38 Highland Creek buses). With run times like this anyone forced to transfer at the 401 to continue either north or south would not be left stranded for very long. I suspect it wouldn't take much to have buses serve all stops south of the 401 (Keeler, Military, Purpledusk and a stop south side Ellesmere for the Hospital). This section could be a curbside ROW with smart signals to give buses the right of way. North of the 401 the ROW would be dedicated in the median with stops at midway between Milner/Sheppard, Wickson, Sewell, McLevin, Crow Trail and Finch before entering the Finch Hydro Corridor and running westwards.
There's a lot of things better. Unfortunately, our hands are tied on this one. You've seen how hard it is to sell a plan cancelling Sheppard to people who understand transit. Imagine briefing a mayoral candidate or getting the public onside with that.
No, not cancel SELRT; more like cancel the SRT extension in favor of a Neilson BRT that then continues west through the Hydro Corridor to Finch Stn. Instead of having one Finch bus for all users along Finch we can stratify the service. So Yonge-Warden local/limited, Warden-McCowan local/limited (express west of there in the busway), McCowan-Neilson local/limited (express west of there in the busway) trippers could exist getting commuters from Scarborough to their destinations in less time.
I fully agree. But how do you sell this to Metrolinx who wants a network. We've already canned the link between Sheppard and Don Mills. Now we'd be disconnecting another two lines. Is that sellable? Personally, I'd support ditching the Finch East portion and using that money to get bus lanes on Finch East. For once, a major bus route that works in this town should get an upgrade.
Metrolinx actually is on record stating that they’re interested in providing transit services in the Hydro Corridors right across the 416. One of their charts explicitly states that peak hourly demand for transit in the FHC would exceed 30,000. Source: http://www.metrolinx.com/MetrolinxDocuments/1/Strategic Transit Directions_2007-01-29.pdf (pages- 27, 32, 34, 41, 54). Their only concern is the proximity of the 407 Transitway as competing for the same riders. However I disagree; Rexdale to Morningside Heights passenger demand travel cannot be better served via having to travel all the way up to Markham then through Vaughan first.

It’s a missed opportunity to link the Zoo – M Hts/Malvern – Markham Rd – Woodside – Bridlewood – Vic Park – Seneca – Old Cummer –Bayview – Finch Stn –Finch West – Jane-Finch with the one line, then alternately switch down towards Etobicoke North GO and the ACC or run on the street along Finch Ave/Humber College Blvd through Etobicoke. GO Transit per MoveOntario2020 is slated to get funding for use of the FHC between Renforth Gateway and York University. We only have two original board appointees, Miller and Giambrone, to thank for letting this proposal lose some of its political clout. Maybe now with the shake-up, projects like these can be reprioritized.
Is grade separation really needed though? That's money that can go elsewhere.
Well if we want to encourage a lot of Markham residents to use the DRL at Don Mills/Eglinton as a rapid alternative to using the Yonge subway, it’d be wise to make the commute down to Eglinton as rapid as possible. I also wonder how the DMLRT would provide access to Don Mills Stn and then continue north along DM proper. Turning the ROW off DM for 200 metres to access the station directly makes me wonder whether it wouldn’t be better to just continue the line on a guideway overlooking the left side of the DVP/404 and leaving local #25 bus service along DM north of Sheppard? Just a thought.
 
Ever been stuck in gridlock trying to cross the 401 or to get from McCowan/Ellesmere to the SCC Stn during rush hour on the bus?

Sure I have. I've been stuck in traffic on the 95 going from York Mills Station all the way along Ellesmere to UTSC. And I've been stuck in traffic on Viva going under the 404. On a really bad day it can take 20-30 minutes to get through the tiny stretch from Woodbine to Leslie.

Giving buses their own unobstructed lanes will remove thousands of motorists from our streets over time

Unfortunately, "queue-jump lanes" (e.g. Highway 7 at Leslie) are not unobstructed and they are not BRT. They are pre-BRT at best. True BRT looks and costs exactly the same as Transit City LRT.

Don't get me wrong -- I am very excited about the construction of Spadina-style concrete medians for buses along Highway 7 and Yonge, and I can't wait to ride Viva once it stops being pre-BRT and becomes BRT. But it's not as cheap as you seem to think.
 
It is not me doing that and besides, I would not be spreading anything around for SOS :D

If you look on Rocco's page under his fan photos, someone posted a map that shows a bunch of subway lines (i.e. Sheppard to STC, BD to Square One, etc.)

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!...77219380&aid=-1&id=708577101&oid=135377219380

That's nothing like what SOS proposed to begin with or what SOS is working on right now. Pretty much every subway fantasy map has Sheppard and BD extensions and a subway on Eglinton. So that makes it like SOS? We never proposed a Bloor-Danforth extension to the zoo. Nor did we ever suggest running the Sheppard line down to the Bloor-Danforth line in the west end. That's just ridiculous.
 
Here is the updated version of the plan that we have thus far. The cost for the priority section is estimated at $15.1 billion.
 

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1. You might want to consider a more direct link between STC and Malvern centre.
2. I don't know if you guys have any engineers on your team, but I'd like to know the real costs and consequences of burying west Eglinton. What speed improvements can be expected vs. at grade (and at grade needn't mean middle-of-street), and the real costs of cut and cover.

Other than that, looks good.
 
Much improved. The only thing needing work is the connectivity east of Scarborough Centre. Perhaps a Sheppard East split into 3 routes with A running Allendale to UofTS via Sheppard and Morningside, B running SCC to Malvern via McCowan, Sheppard, and Neilson, and C running SCC to Meadowvale via McCowan and Sheppard. This reduces total trackage by sharing track between three routes and handles the fact that likely many will want to go to SCC to take the Bloor line. The Kingston Rd BRT could end at UofTS and the Durham BRT could run SCC to Pickering via Progress, Markham, Ellesmere, Military Trail, Old Kingston, and Kingston. Not ideal but somehow the map needs to allow for people going from both the Sheppard subway and Bloor subway to Sheppard East, Malvern, UofTS, and Pickering. With the current map there is no Bloor line connectivity.
 
How about an LRT that leaves Scarborough Town Center and travels east on Ellesmere to UTSC and Centenial College and continue east on Ellesmere, then Kingston Rd. to Pickering Town Center. GO has hinted at funding a pedestrian bridge to Pickering Town Center transit terminal and an LRT servicing this hub would make it a true multi-modal hub and UTSC would have rapid transit on their campus. If this were done the 95 bus would only have to leave York Mills Station and travel as far as Scarborough Town Center then this proposed LRT would service the rest of Ellesmere including Centenary hospital and to post secondary schools. Right now only one Durham Region Transit bus enters into Toronto and it only goes to Rouge Hill GO Station. This LRT would help intergrate Durham Region Transit with the TTC. Still most would be served by the GO Station. This LRT line would give transit users in Pickering more options and likely more people would get on public transit if the TTC and Durham transit systems were linked, like York Region Transit or Mississauga Transit is linked to the TTC presently.
 
I can't remember if it was GO that wanted the pedestrian bridge to Pickering Town Center transit terminal or the Town of Pickering or Durham Region Transit.
 
Just a couple of comments:

1) Don Mills LRT should reach Steeles. The latest map shows it running just Eglinton to Sheppard, which means too many transfers along Don Mills.

2) Not sure why Don Mills LRT is dashed line (non-priority), whereas Jane LRT is solid line (priority).
 

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