Who's more right-wing: Harper or Obama?

[Seymour]

This is something I've been wondering about lately: Harper represents the whitest/rightest in Canada, when Bush was in power and 9/11 happened Harper published a full page open to letter to the Bush administration criticising Canada for not immediately going to war in Iraq with the Americans, I know that is ancient history in politics, that Harper eventually changed his mind and said the Iraq war it was a mistake, but still there are plenty more examples of Harper's right-wingness, and yet, Harper as PM of Canada, finds himself governing a country which has universal healthcare for all, and many other national social programs, a decidedly non-right wing thing. Does Harper's lust for power supercede his ideologies?

Obama, already an icon, a symbol of hope and change and multiculturality, is governing a country where carrying guns is a constitutional right, where the death sentence is still in place, where social security has been privatized, where church & state have become fused of late, and where supporting social programs are seen negatively as the formation of a socialist state.

In the Star today it said that Obama And Harper "despite big differences in philosophy" they forged a common front. Obama's economy & population is ten times the size of Harper's. My question is: who is more on the right, Obama or Harper??

 

[CityPlaceN1]

Harper.

 

[Seymour]

I say Harper as well. Even though Canada is more socialist overall then the US.

Hey mods, could we make a poll?

Harper or Obama
Who is more right-wing?

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

i don't know. i've never seen any of them play hockey.

harper. harper has to tone down his right side to appeal to voters who can swing both ways and obama has to tone down his left side to appeal to voters who can swing both ways.

 

[cacruden]

If the question is who is more right wing, I would also say Harper, but if the meaning was who was the most right wing leader - I think it is too close to call. Both of them have shown pragmatism in positioning themselves as leaders - which I think is something most people in Canada would not have thought Harper would not do if leader. He's not the smartest, but he is smart enough to know reality. Now if you ask who is the smartest intellectually (you can be smart intellectual and be wrong ) -- that would definitely be Obama.

 

[Seymour]

Yes of course, Obama is far more sophisticated/intellectual than Harper who isn't really able to hide his regionalism. But there's definitely a fine line, one could argue that Ignatieff is "intellectual" as well (Harvard prof, author and blah de blah), but Iggy definitely exudes an "I'm wholier than thou" attitude, which Obama, certainly does not despite also being highly educated, an author of books, very worldly etc.

 

[Seymour]

i don't know. i've never seen any of them play hockey.

Har de har I heard Harper is writing a book on hockey. Too bad there isn't a sarcasm emoticon but: 'what a legacy'.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Harper is way further to the right than Obama.

America is way further to the right than Canada.

(Could we swap?)

Obama's a pragmatic leader, so he'll compromise for the good of the country (or, more cynically, to keep votes). The biggest example of this is his being 'against' gay marriage. I doubt he holds that view personally, but to come out in full-favour of gay marriage in the US will kill your support in several states at the moment.

Harper's pragmatic too, but in the opposite direction. His real views are best summed up in his `97 speech to a right-wing US think tank, where he claimed that Canada is a "Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term."

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...1213/elxn_harper_speech_text_051214/20051214/

 

[detroitbootybass]

Obama, already an icon, a symbol of hope and change and multiculturality, is governing a country... where social security has been privatized

You are mistaken, Social Security hasn't been privatized in the US. Bush did talk about various proposals for partial-privatization, but the majority of Americans were opposed to the idea and it never gained enough traction in the Republican party (mainly because the highly influential AARP was firmly against the idea). Then the Republicans lost control of both houses of Congress in 2006 and the idea became nothing but a fleeting memory (further hastened by the current decline in the stock market).

 

[Seymour]

Good point GraphicMatt! I'd love it if Harper & Obama could/would swap!
'Cause Harper is so clearly homophobic underneath that cheap blue sweater & kittens whereas Obama most certainly supports gay marriage on a personal level.

 

[Seymour]

You are mistaken, Social Security hasn't been privatized in the US. Bush did talk about various proposals for partial-privatization, but the majority of Americans were opposed to the idea and it never gained enough traction in the Republican party (mainly because the highly influential AARP was firmly against the idea). Then the Republicans lost control of both houses of Congress in 2006 and the idea became nothing but a fleeting memory (further hastened by the current decline in the stock market).

Whoops I thought it had already been privatized, good thing it didn't go through.

 

[Hydrogen]

This is something I've been wondering about lately: Harper represents the whitest/rightest in Canada...

Why do you find it necessary to link race with politics?

Harper is hardly the most right-wing of politicians. If anything, he has toned down over the years. He's a mere shadow of his Reform party huffing and puffing days.

 

[Seymour]

Why do you find it necessary to link race with politics?

Though Harper doesn't strike me as much of a multicultural type, I'm just calling it is as it is. And Harper is white, from Alberta, right-wing. Is he fulfilling a stereotype? I would say so.

Harper is hardly the most right-wing of politicians. If anything, he has toned down over the years. He's a mere shadow of his Reform party huffing and puffing days.

I can't think of another current mainstream Canadian politician who is more right-wing than Harper! Can you? I guess maybe Harper has cooled off a little bit from his Alliance-Reform days of yore, or maybe he has been forced to in order to remain in power. If I look into the past I could name Mike Harris (ex-premier of Ontario) as a comparable right-winger though he was provincial, many of his cabinet ministers are now Harper's cabinet ministers. but Harris is no longer active. Then there's also Brian Mulroney....

 

[JasonParis]

Harris was never socially right-wing.

Mulroney was about as right-wing as Harper is these days, but in general Mulroney had more progressive tendencies.

There's many further to the right that Harper in this country. In fact, many in Harper's own cabinet are, but rarely does he let them truly speak.

 

[Whoaccio]

I cant speak for either of the their personal philosophies, but from a policy perspective I am pretty sure Obama is more right wing than Harper.

Foreign policy:
This is a bit hard in that Canada, due to its size, doesn't play a very activist role. So far as Canadian and American initiatives overlap though, Obama generally espouses more hawkish policies. As far as Afhganistan go, Obama has quite strongly supported increasing the American presence, while Harper has agreed to relinquish combat operations by 2011.

Health care:
Harper has basically just kept the Paul Martin policies as far as health care goes, increasing provincial transfers by 6% p.a. Obama's health care platform though centers around expanding Medicaid coverage for low income Americans. Individuals could still choose their own, private, HMOs if they wanted. That is definitely more right wing than anything Harper has proposed.

Social Policy:
Harper, even if he opposed its introduction, has done absolutely nothing to reverse Paul Martin's recognition of ssm. From that we can conclude he, at least tacitly, supports legal recognition of same sex marriages. Obama though has made it quite clear he believes in the traditional definition of marriage and would only go so far as to grant civil unions.

Economic Policy:
About 30% of Obama's Stimulus Package was devoted to tax cuts and credits. Harper's Stimulus Package though only devoted about 10% of stimulus dollars towards tax cuts and rebates.