News   Jul 31, 2024
 184     0 
News   Jul 31, 2024
 368     0 
News   Jul 31, 2024
 311     1 

What should be done about Toronto's deficit?

Better still, toll the destination exits instead of the entry points. That way everybody pays as they should if tolls are to be charged and the 905ers can't complain and will be less likely to invoke the Tit-for-Tat reaction of Tolls on their roads as a retaliatory measure.

What about Torontonians leaving Toronto to work in the 905; I understand this subject is about Toronto and it's own deficit but Toronto will have to prepare for that backlash if it decides to, what sounds to me, like alienating 905ers. I've never seen a city do such a thing before. It invokes more of an "us vs. them" situation.

Personally, I wouldn't mind it (if it was affordable); but I'm not too sure that would go over well if it happened.

To further my point -- if the goal is to reduce the deficit you could simply add on the goal of reducing congestion on all major roads within Toronto and the GTA and those in Toronto should be held accountable as well for contributing to road congestion. Why not kill two birds with one stone?
 
NYC has a commuting income tax, if you work in NYC but don't live there the tax comes right off your paycheque. ^^^^
 
Better still, toll the destination exits instead of the entry points. That way everybody pays as they should if tolls are to be charged and the 905ers can't complain and will be less likely to invoke the Tit-for-Tat reaction of Tolls on their roads as a retaliatory measure.
If Toronto was an island or there was a bridge/tunnel of some sort - this might make sense, otherwise it's a foolosh road to go down.

Mississauga, for example, has more people coming IN to the city to work each day than leave. A lot of people who commute downtown may be those from Toronto's own outer suburbs who would get a free pass, even though they'd be driving 100m less than someone living on the other side of Steeles?

Destination exists makes more sense, as you suggest, but why not just create a GTA focused fuel tax? This way every km that is driven by someone who lives or works in the GTA is paid for, and you're not creating a whole new (and probably costly) infrastructure of toll booths, scanners, cameras, whatever. Everyone who drives already buys gas and that's where it's easiest to collect.

That said - Toronto really should just raise its own property tax rates to levels that actually work before going down all these other avenues? Not a 35% lump increase, but maybe 20% over 6 years or something. I've been a proponent of spending reductions before tax increases, but a measure of both would go a long way. The ideal thing would be that the province actually changes the way these taxes are structured so that if you pay $3,210 one year, it won't drop to $3,150 the next based on paying your share of the total. Make it so that you pay the % based on your assessed value and if an increase is announced, it's not a misleading aggregate increase, but an actual increase to your rate. If this was to happen, an increase of even 1% would probably be rare.
 
if destination exit tolls were to be applied, Id expect tolls off the 401 onto yonge and sheppard, richmond downtown to at least past the CNE, Eglinton on the ALLEN, and Eglinton at Black Creek... Id agree with a TAX in fuel as well. Why not do both.... If we are going to start having a pay by distance approach on our TTC the same rules should apply to cars as well.
 
Id agree with a TAX in fuel as well. Why not do both.... If we are going to start having a pay by distance approach on our TTC the same rules should apply to cars as well.
If you're taxing fuel, you're essentially doing the 'pay by distance' since they are directly related. The more distance you put in, the more fuel you consume. The other good thing is that it's already weighted for vehicle type as well, since smaller more efficient vehicles will use less and larger vehicles will use more. There really is no reason to get into these more complicated toll concepts if you can merge the collection of any additional taxes/fees right at the point of registration and the point of fuel purchase, because there is little to no added cost to implement the adders and little to no inconvenience created for the driver, since they already have to pay for their plate and already have to buy fuel.

The 407 is a perfect example of how complicated an extra layer of fee collections can be, or how probopematic it can be when discrepancies can arise, or how an extra bill causes needless added time and inconvenience, not to mention service charges by your bank just to pay for.

Since the province oversees licensing, it could implement a VRT that is directed specifically to transit and infrastructure, and channeled specifically to the municipality where the drivers are registered.
 
NYC has a commuting income tax, if you work in NYC but don't live there the tax comes right off your paycheque. ^^^^

R123: The NYC Commuter Tax was repealed back in 1999...For more information see "NYC Commuter Tax Repeal" as a Google search...

This tax was paid by those residing outside the 5 Boroughs of the City of New York who worked in NYC...

There has been thought about bringing back this tax especially after failure of the regressive MTA Payroll Tax in the NYC and Downstate NY Region...

LI MIKE
 
That said - Toronto really should just raise its own property tax rates to levels that actually work before going down all these other avenues? Not a 35% lump increase, but maybe 20% over 6 years or something.
If you increase revenue you will be guaranteed to see spending increase to match and then exceed the new revenue. You could increase property taxes 100% and within a few years the city would have spent it all, and then begun crying poor again.
 
If you increase revenue you will be guaranteed to see spending increase to match and then exceed the new revenue. You could increase property taxes 100% and within a few years the city would have spent it all, and then begun crying poor again.
That's why any increase should go with an equivalent measure of reductions. The fact is that TO's property tax rates have been kep articifically low. Ford is entirely correct to request an increase in provincial funding for things that the city shouldn't have to shoulder alone (certain social programs, etc) but it first has to increase property taxes to a level that is suitable to cover the hard costs that a city is supposed to cover, things like roads, parks, police, waste, etc... It's a deleicate balancing act that I don't envy any of these leaders being responsible for, but Miller's way of doing it was only going to last so long before the bottom fell out and he bailed when that appeared to be coming during this term. He'd rather leave someone else to tell people 'no' than to do it himself. People may not like Ford, but someone like him (if not him) is needed in the short term.
 
An informative article from Royson James on the foundation of the issue:

City economics: budget surplus = deficit
Mon Sep 26 2011


The budget battle taking place on the floor of city council this week reflects two competing truths: One, Toronto is spending more money than it takes in through taxes and fees. Two, there is not enough savings from “gravy†or waste to cover the gap.

Is the city broke? How did we get there? Is there massive waste? Will this “core service review†solve the fiscal problems and set Toronto on a path clear of the annual budget battle? And what are the solutions most Torontonians can live with?

Today, the context; later, the solutions.

The first head-scratcher for residents is how David Miller can leave office with a $300 million “surplus†and Mayor Rob Ford arrive the next day to announce a $774 million “shortfall?â€

Ah, the wonders of city budgeting. When staff present the spending and revenue targets for a calendar year, it is an educated guess. By law, the city cannot run a deficit. If they are short, they would have to impose a supplementary tax on property owners. That’s political suicide, so staff must be conservative in their estimates to ensure revenues/taxes cover costs.

As a result, by year-end, there’s always a “surplus†— ranging from $5.8 million in 2004 to $95.1 million in 2007 and to $367.5 million last year. These funds are automatically rolled over to the next year to reduce the total in taxes needed for the coming year.

But they create a false impression and present a problem for the untrained observer. If the surplus was guaranteed and stable, then the next year’s budget forecast could depend on it as a revenue source. It’s not, and it can’t be, so staff treat the “surplus†as a one-time gift.

It’s as if you got a $200 birthday gift and used it to help pay your $1,000 rent. Now, if your income was only $800, you’d start the next month with a $200 shortfall.

The huge Miller surplus from 2010, in essence, is now creating a larger-than-normal “shortfall†for 2012. It has fed the budget, boosting it to the $774 million figure the mayor throws around.

First, the amount was rolled over into the 2011 budget. Little wonder the current year’s budget was approved with such little drama and Mayor Ford even froze taxes and rejected the TTC’s vote to increase fares by 10 cents.

(Some consider that a foolish move, and short-sighted. In effect, Ford denied the city about $100 million in revenues in 2011 — $70 million that would have come in from a 3 per cent tax hike and $30 million from the fare hike. Compounded, that sum would grow to $200 million for the 2012 budget.)

That aside, the current debate is over the 2012 budget — and beyond. Faced with shortfalls ever since amalgamation, when the province downloaded services and costs, city council has used several sources to balance its books. The problem recurs each year because the funding sources — like the birthday gift above — are one-time money.

Every year, council uses reserve funds, loans, grants from the province, investment income and other money that may or may not show up the following year. Staff have been warning that the city needs permanent funding sources or spending reductions to fix what they call the “structural deficit.â€

Ford campaigned on a pledge he could find nearly $2 billion in “gravy,†and cut it without affecting services. So he embraced staff’s “core service review,†the current exercise that has created a storm of controversy. As it turns out, only diehard Ford Nation, anti-government types would consider most of the services identified as “gravy.â€

Council will continue debating the options Tuesday. Next, the choices they could make, if only they weren’t blinded by ideology.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1060039--city-economics-budget-surplus-deficit
 
I feel there's a fundamental disconnect between the taxpayer and the services they get. This is why it is so easy for that whole "gravy" messaging to sell.

In my opinion, the best thing to do is to unbundle some of these expenses and apply them as user fees.

Personally, I'd like to see the city's entire roads budget come from plate taxes ...

Not sure if it's that simple. My understanding is that licence taxes, plate taxes, tire taxes, fuel taxes, vehicle green taxes, the hated vehicle registration taxes, and other taxes vehicle owners pay, all went into the general revenue stream. So if you unbundle and specifically tie them to roads and road repair, that might actually create a shortfall somewhere else that depended on these auto taxes to fund the general review bucket. I don't have the numbers, just wondering?
 

Back
Top