Waterloo Region Transit Developments (ION LRT, new terminal, GRT buses)

[nfitz]

Honestly, I don't think there's much to it but luck in getting a slightly more proven and notably less glitchy fleet.

They added on as one of the options to the TTC-specced order. TTC would have followed the design closely. Now, the Flexity Freedoms are a bit different, but there's similarities. And probably a much tighter contracting framework.

I fear for the Finch West vehicles though. They were contracted VERY quickly, and not even tendered. Did they fix this error?

 

[reaperexpress]

A database page and building thread have been created for the King Victoria Transit Hub.

Earlier posts from this thread relevant to the transit hub have been copied over. Please use that thread for discussion relating the transit hub building specifically and continue to use this thread for discussion of general Waterloo Region transit developments. Thanks!

So now I need to second-guess whether each transit project counts as a "building" or not in order to find it? So if GO Transit upgrades tracks between stations it's in the Transportation & Infrastructure forum, but if they upgrade tracks in a station (e.g. Union Station Expansion) it's in the building forum? That makes no sense to me. A GO Transit station thread has a lot more in common with the GO Transit Construction Projects thread than it does with a skyscraper.

 

[Paclo]

So now I need to second-guess whether each transit project counts as a "building" or not in order to find it? So if GO Transit upgrades tracks between stations it's in the Transportation & Infrastructure forum, but if they upgrade tracks in a station (e.g. Union Station Expansion) it's in the building forum? That makes no sense to me. A GO Transit station thread has a lot more in common with the GO Transit Construction Projects thread than it does with a skyscraper.

Track upgrades, regardless of where they occur (at an existing station or between), are discussed in the transportation and infrastructure section. If the scope of work in a project involves the construction of new and permanent buildings, as most stations are, then it can be discussed in the buildings section.

 

[reaperexpress]

Track upgrades, regardless of where they occur (at an existing station or between), are discussed in the transportation and infrastructure section. If the scope of work in a project involves the construction of new and permanent buildings, as most stations are, then it can be discussed in the buildings section.

Well the Union Station Expansion project does include a planning application and arguably some level of building (an underground concourse) so by your description it should be in the Buildings section. The track upgrades which are also part of that project and will inevitably be discussed in that thread would therefore not be discussed in the Transportation and Infrastructure section.

 

[Sunnyside]

I don’t think this is rocket science… something that is exclusively a building gets a building thread, something actually related to the transportation component is here. That doesn’t preclude people from talking about one in the other. I think it makes sense to track Mount Dennis’ construction in a building thread for instance, and maybe have the odd update in GO construction projects rather than throwing them all there. When a building is done the topic can be closed and more easily encapsulated, rather than bloating threads/ conversations. And when In doubt, just post in both or go with your gut…

 

[rbt]

I don’t think this is rocket science… something that is exclusively a building gets a building thread, something actually related to the transportation component is here. That doesn’t preclude people from talking about one in the other. I think it makes sense to track Mount Dennis’ construction in a building thread for instance, and maybe have the odd update in GO construction projects rather than throwing them all there. When a building is done the topic can be closed and more easily encapsulated, rather than bloating threads/ conversations. And when In doubt, just post in both or go with your gut…

Hosting station threads under both Transit and Building forums is largely possible. One thread is a symbolic reference to the other, and clicking on the reference redirects the person to the actual thread.

[tl] Thread Symbiotics

Description: Make more threads which link to an existing thread. Symbiotic threads work like the current thread redirect but with few differences: Symbiotic threads is permanently redirects Symbiotic threads have last post info and display as...

xenforo.com

 

[Allandale25]

Full thread via the link. You'll have to see this on twitter for the timelapse in the first image.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1702368548364976386

 

[ZEBuilder]

This won't be surprising to anyone who has been on regional transit within the last month but the number of boardings/trips in September is an all time record with 3.8 million boardings and 2.9 million trips. The previous records respectively were 3.07 million boardings in June of 2019 (the month the LRT opened) and 2.19 million in November 2019.

The number of boardings and trips that have occurred this year has now surpassed the total number of boardings and trips last year by roughly 1 million a piece and they are currently on pace to surpass the previous records set in 2019. Due to this GRT is planning on adding about 50,000 hours of new service in 2024, they have yet to say what the changes will be but it is certainly possible that many of the routes will have an increase in frequency.

The region is also in the process of purchasing articulated busses for some routes, in 2019 when the idea was first floated the busses would be used on routes 201 (currently operating on 10 minute frequencies during peak hours) and the 12 (currently operating on 15 minute frequencies during peak hours). However the actual routes using them is still not publicly determined.

 

[andrewmaps]

Just a nice pic of ION...

 

[allengeorge]

It’s unfortunate that Phase 2 is so wildly expensive as to (probably) be DOA.

 

[ericmacm]

It’s unfortunate that Phase 2 is so wildly expensive as to (probably) be DOA.

I doubt it. I will concede that my outlook on the situation is pretty optimistic, but there are a lot of reasons to be.

It is expensive, there is no doubt about that. However, all Grand River Area municipalities are growing very quickly and construction of iON Stage 2 is only going to get more expensive every year it sits in planning. The need is not going away, and the case for Stage 2 is going to improve every year and is being helped by explosive ridership growth seen throughout GRT.

What I believe is going to eventually happen is that the feds are going to end up funding a large portion of its cost, like how the feds are paying for half of the Hamilton LRT. However, I don’t believe that these discussions will happen until Cambridge shows interest in and signs a Housing Accelerator Fund agreement to end exclusionary zoning.

 

[Northern Light]

I doubt it. I will concede that my outlook on the situation is pretty optimistic, but there are a lot of reasons to be.

It is expensive, there is no doubt about that. However, all Grand River Area municipalities are growing very quickly and construction of iON Stage 2 is only going to get more expensive every year it sits in planning. The need is not going away, and the case for Stage 2 is going to improve every year and is being helped by explosive ridership growth seen throughout GRT.

What I believe is going to eventually happen is that the feds are going to end up funding a large portion of its cost, like how the feds are paying for half of the Hamilton LRT. However, I don’t believe that these discussions will happen until Cambridge shows interest in and signs a Housing Accelerator Fund agreement to end exclusionary zoning.

A question for you and others here more familiar w/ K-W than I...........

The existing ION is a north-south spine of Rapid Transit for the area, broadly in line w/how the community (ies) are shaped by the Grand.

That said, do you (or anyone else) think there is case for any kind of East-West spine, above and beyond GO?

If so, where would one put that to serve existing/future density/jobs?

I looked at a few spots on aerial (Victoria, Queen, etc.) but couldn't settle on a clear candidate and whether its even a worthwhile idea in the medium term.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

A question for you and others here more familiar w/ K-W than I...........

The existing ION is a north-south spine of Rapid Transit for the area, broadly in line w/how the community (ies) are shaped by the Grand.

That said, do you (or anyone else) think there is case for any kind of East-West spine, above and beyond GO?

If so, where would one put that to serve existing/future density/jobs?

I looked at a few spots on aerial (Victoria, Queen, etc.) but couldn't settle on a clear candidate and whether its even a worthwhile idea in the medium term.

The only kind of E/W spine that seems to make sense to me is using the existing corridors. Urban frequency rail service from Guelph to Galt and to at least the Ira Needle/ Boardwalk area, if not out to New Hamburg, would have a lot going for it, but doesn't fit nicely into any of the existing governmental structures...

Which leads into my other big structural thought, which is that the re amalgamation an "Upper Tier Municipality without Planning Authority" may well be the right approach, but if it is Wellington (and Guelph) should be brough in and some of the township boundaries changed (maybe call the whole thing Grand River and a new amalgamated lower tier between KW/Cambridge and Guelph Breslau?)

 

[ericmacm]

A question for you and others here more familiar w/ K-W than I...........

The existing ION is a north-south spine of Rapid Transit for the area, broadly in line w/how the community (ies) are shaped by the Grand.

That said, do you (or anyone else) think there is case for any kind of East-West spine, above and beyond GO?

If so, where would one put that to serve existing/future density/jobs?

I looked at a few spots on aerial (Victoria, Queen, etc.) but couldn't settle on a clear candidate and whether it’s even a worthwhile idea in the medium term.

Here’s a rough idea of what future RT could look like in the region, from the 2018 Planning and Works Committee Report. There is a plan for a loop and westward extension through Waterloo, an eastward extension/westward extension and/or loop through Kitchener along the GO corridor, as well as a number of additional iXpress BRT routes throughout the region. iON Stage 3 appeared on MTO’s 2051 Transit Plan.

It also shows two potential GO spurs, one is the much-discussed Cambridge spur, as well as a potential spur into the Waterloo Regional Airport.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

I'll add that

1. that Airport spur has been given no context beyond it's inclusion on that map, and appears to approach the airport from the wrong end to serve anything but the middle of a runway; and
2. Cambridge GO by way of Milton is officially not the preferred option. Stage 2 of the Dillon / RoW / Metrolinx study firmly committed to using Fergus.

My perspective would be that reserving a ROW for some kind of airport link might not be a bad idea, but well into the foreseeable long term the airport would be more than properly served by a high quality bus service on Fountain Street. Once ION is in place, redirecting iXpress 206 up Fountain to the Kossuth / Fairway roundabout then west to Fairway Station would be a really good support for an already designated greenfield area. With an expansion of the on demand area down to roundabout this really would be plenty short term.

Longer (more like medium) term extending the 206 direct to the airport then onto Breslau GO , with a new Airport iXpress from Fairway, ideally extending on to Guelph, would make a lot more sense than a strange heavy rail spur.

What I believe is going to eventually happen is that the feds are going to end up funding a large portion of its cost, like how the feds are paying for half of the Hamilton LRT. However, I don’t believe that these discussions will happen until Cambridge shows interest in and signs a Housing Accelerator Fund agreement to end exclusionary zoning.

I like the suggestion, and do think that Federal money is reasonably inevitable, but how familiar with the Cambridge zoning by-law are you? It's already got universal triplexes (not that Bill 23 left much choice)... How much less exclusionary do you picture the feds demanding? Fourplexes everywhere? No control on built form?

From the direction I've taken on the last couple posts I don't think anyone will be terribly surprised that I more or less support letting Waterloo Region grow into Guelph. Frankly, it's not necessarily IDEAL, but as far as giant patches of green field go its a lot less offensive than most other places it could go (like, say, along the 413 corridor). Moreover though, I think it's inevitable whether one thinks it SHOULD happen, and given that we'd be a lot better off ensuring this is built as a reasonably sustainable actual expansion of the urban area(s) rather than a patchy exurban mess of sprawl.

PS: I didn't address the RoW's take on stage 3 Ion (being that King / University / Erb / Ira Needles / Victoria thing). I like the Waterloo part, but really think that there SHOULD be that crosstown rail service rather than full xRT (an even more tram like LRT might be worth consideration, but I really have a hard time picturing this actually being built as anything but BRT) on Victoria. I'd most likely suggest stage 3 ending at the Boardwalk (and ideally an associated GO station), and taking Stage 4 west on Highland, south on Fisher-Hallman and East to Block Line station with consideration for continuing on to Conestoga College via Manitou and Homer Watson.

PPS: I also didn't mention the other big project I have in mind for the area. I wholeheartedly agree that Fergus is far better than extending the Milton Line to Cambridge, but am quite fond of idea of extending it up the Guelph Junction Railway with a station in Campbellville. I could be convinced either way as to whether that station should be before or after the junction with GJR, but at a glance the idea of passenger trains through Waterdown to Hamilton is attractive enough it seems slightly preferable to put a station in a position it could serve such a branch as well.