rbt
Senior Member
I see the Bremner portal is back (kinda). Clearly it is considered but the alignment goes through retained vertical supports.
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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
I see the Bremner portal is back (kinda). Clearly it is considered but the alignment goes through retained vertical supports.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Thanks for posting these! Was waiting for them yesterday...
The canopies proposed in the original West 8/DTAH Central Waterfront scheme is broadly similar - but of course the design has evolved a bit over the past decade and a half (it was originally a wood lattice with no external glass covering).
AoD
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
Interesting tidbit: Construction starts 2025, anticipated completion 2030.
allengeorge
Senior Member
I thought the city hadn’t finalized funding...
drum118
Superstar
Funding for the original EA plan was put into the City capital 2020-2030 budget in 2019, but not the funding for the extension to Cherry St Loop. That was $1B for the 2010 EA.
The extension to Cherry St Loop rose near the end of 2020 with no answer as to when, where funding was coming from and how much is required to do this extension. Then there was the lack of an EA for it as well the underpass.
The current EA is to flush out the unknown with the 30% design and costing.
As I stated in the past, construction of an east-west line can get underway before 2025 considering the total rebuilt of QQW only took 2 years and was delay by the problem with the 2nd platform for Union Station. With the building of the new portal and infilling Yonge slip, the east-west line to Parliament can be in place by 2026-27 depending on tendering and real funding cost with Union Loop to follow at an unknown date around 2030. As for going to the Cherry Loop this is a bit of an guessing game until the unknown and cost are known, but 2027-29 could be in that timeframe.
The new QQE road between Parliament and Cherry St was needed years ago to get the various developments plan for that area off the ground. The new Cherry St is supposed to open late 2024 and will offer some access to this area to get development going sooner than later until the QQE road is built.
We will see another open house for this project by May for more update to meet the timeline to have it 100% completed late this year to be put into the 2022 budget at the end of the year.
Work may start in 2022 for 11 Bay St, but more like 2023/24 that will have an impact QQ station and the portal.
drum118
Superstar
For those who may watched Waterfront Design Review or have other source from it, was the presentation for the :
1: Union Station and Portal ?
2: 1 and up to Parliament St?
3: 1 and all the way to Cherry Loop?
Where or when did the timeline for construction and completion come up and for what is noted above?
I assuming the presentation was more around Union Station, Portal and infilling since they are move advanced at this stage.
Anything going to Cherry Loop or into the Portland is at a high overview at this time based on the last public meeting. I prefer the option of taking the line into the Portland as it will allow streetcars to use the new bridge sooner than having buses use it as well telling new buyers you have transit at your front door and don't need a car or that 2nd car.
1: Union Station and Portal ?
2: 1 and up to Parliament St?
3: 1 and all the way to Cherry Loop?
Where or when did the timeline for construction and completion come up and for what is noted above?
I assuming the presentation was more around Union Station, Portal and infilling since they are move advanced at this stage.
Anything going to Cherry Loop or into the Portland is at a high overview at this time based on the last public meeting. I prefer the option of taking the line into the Portland as it will allow streetcars to use the new bridge sooner than having buses use it as well telling new buyers you have transit at your front door and don't need a car or that 2nd car.
DSCToronto
Superstar
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There is a link to the presentation on previous page. ("Waterfront East LRT Area 1: Union to Queens Quay Link (DRAFT) PDF " )
drum118
Superstar
Thanks as I miss it.
It doesn't answer to the time line for construction nor will there be an e-w line in place while work is being done on the Union Loop.
From this presentation, taking the line into the Portland as an option has been rule out and buses will be using the LRT bridge till late 2030 to early 2040.
Happen to be fixing some photos with some for the QQW rebuilt. It only took 2 years to rebuild the existing area that is built out. Since a good section of the east is still brown field it should take no more than 3 years to do it including the new portal. The unknow is what is to happen at the rail corridor since there are 3 options for it.
The presentation seems to answer the questions to funding the extension to the Cherry Loop as it will be done by Waterfront Toronto which is not surprising. With Waterfront Toronto doing it, it allows them to open up underdeveloped land sooner to generate income and get the area built sooner as well.
If Waterfront Toronto had the money, the LRT line would be up and running now for a number of years than the possible 2030 date at this time. Still possible to get the e-w line up and running by 2026/27, but need some arm twisting to do it and pushing the loop down the road.
Don't think riders will want to spend 5+ years riding a bus under the current plan.
max
Active Member
Something new in this revision, there's a level-crossing at QQ station in the middle of the platform. Much more convenient than using the lower level and leads me to wonder why the tunnel would still be providing access to the west side tracks.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
max
Active Member
Yup, I understand why the east side still has a stairwell and elevator to the lower level. My observation was that technically the west side doesn't need one since there is a path from west to east through the level-crossing and the east side stairway and elevator are there. I can think of two reasons for it, one is to provide a redundant elevator to that lower tunnel, and the second is to increase capacity for circulating passengers during busy periods. I wonder if it will survive subsequent revisions if they try to cut costs.
allengeorge
Senior Member
What the heck? This timeline seems unreasonable: sometimes I think Toronto deserves to have its transit design and build capabilities removed entirely.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
Level crossing... let the cheapening process begin!! Are they going to put in a crosswalk with walk/don't walk lights in the middle of the station? Hopefully having a level crossing in the middle doesn't suggest that they aren't going to be building the station floor up to allow level boarding.
With the cheapening process in progress at Metrolinx, I wonder if we will see level crossings on the Ontario Line considering they are planning on catenary for power and the rails wouldn't be electrified. They should consult with VIA rail on cost reduction solutions like cross the track boarding, plastic movable steps that can be placed at car entrances, single door boarding, etc. Glencoe had a beautiful railway station and VIA moved to what looks like a garden shed. Maybe Metrolinx should look into that... run Ontario Line in the corridor and just put a garden shed in the north end of Bruce Mackey Park where there is a disused platform in the corridor and at the north end of Thackeray St where there is a level walk over to the trains. Use the cross walk technology or whatever they are planning in Queens Quay Station.
With the cheapening process in progress at Metrolinx, I wonder if we will see level crossings on the Ontario Line considering they are planning on catenary for power and the rails wouldn't be electrified. They should consult with VIA rail on cost reduction solutions like cross the track boarding, plastic movable steps that can be placed at car entrances, single door boarding, etc. Glencoe had a beautiful railway station and VIA moved to what looks like a garden shed. Maybe Metrolinx should look into that... run Ontario Line in the corridor and just put a garden shed in the north end of Bruce Mackey Park where there is a disused platform in the corridor and at the north end of Thackeray St where there is a level walk over to the trains. Use the cross walk technology or whatever they are planning in Queens Quay Station.
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drum118
Superstar
The problem goes back to council as they are the ones who set the budget for all departments and to keep funding TTC as low as possible. At the same time, the same council members sit on TTC commission with no real understanding how TTC should be run, hold TTC staff feet to the fire, too much bean counting, no real long range of transit planning and funding nor fight for the funding TTC at council level.
Then if TTC has a real transit plan, has real free funding from the province, they go out the window who becomes mayor.
1908 saw the funding to build the DRL subject been approved by the residents of the city which did in 1910 only to have an anti transit mayor elected to kill the approved plan and funding to the point it still not built 111 years later.
TTC wanted the Queen line built when the Yonge line was to be built, but the Feds pull the funding. In the 60's TTC wanted the Queen Line built but were told no as the Yonge Line extension to North York was to be built first.
The 70's saw the Province force the SRT onto TTC as it was build it or no more funding from the Province.
In 2003, the Liberals plan of paying for more transit that they brought out the wish list of projects in 2007 that they would pay for 100%. Recession hit forcing projects scale back to phases for the next 10 years as money came forth to bill them. 2010 saw the Ford brother elected who kill all surface transit and looked at subway as the only option regardless how costly they were and how few they would service.
2014 saw the smart track mayor elected and no tracks are in place for it today.
2004-06 Waterfront Toronto did a Waterfront Transit Master that was approved at all levels only to see various lines removed from that plan over the years by TTC and Toronto as some lines were too costly or too far out
2010 saw the approval of the QQE, but TTC had no funds to deal with Union Loop and it has gone under a number of reviews to where we are today.
After dealing with TTC since 2004 and Metrolinx since 2006, transit planning is for the birds and the whim of who is in power and who can control it as well the funding of it.
There been only 2 general manager/CEO since the early 90's that have been worth their weight to do something for TTC as the rest were marking time to the retirement date or not worth having at all as they were yes men.
Metrolinx has turn out as I expected when it was only a Bill as it is control by the Province and MTO. The current CEO for Metrolinx is the right person, but hands are tied how he wants to do things.
TTC has too many staff long in the tooth, out data thinking and the Waterfront Transit Plan is a good example of it.
The City has been unwilling to raise taxes like everyone around them to the point things are falling apart faster than they can built them and this includes transit. TTC had 252 streetcars in 2005 when the LRV's were to be order. Today we have only 203, yet the city has not only grown more than 10% that it needs another 100 cars, the accessibility community can now ride streetcars where they couldn't before along with strollers and bike that take up more space than the 252 cars of the old fleet and force today riders to wait for a car to show up that they can get on.
A fair number on this board will not be around when some of the current plans get built with most of the board gone before the meat for the system is built.
The next 10 years should see not only the building of the QQE, but the Cherry/Commissioner line, Exhibition to Park lawn, Eglinton East/West extension, beefing up all transit lines with a number of BRT lines and the list goes on. Subway are great if you have the ridership and growth to support it in the first place as well to the right place since they cost 3-4 times more than other options.
GO Transit Rail is not going to service everyone nor get them to where they need to go in the first place, but it has to be the backbone of the transit network.
